How is skill calculated???

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essadisessadis Unsigned
edited November 2016 in Rock Band
I have played over 1100 songs
Was 35th in the leaderboards for total score
But I notice some ppl that scores are lower and less gold and fc but have a higher skill then me???
So how are the skill determined?
I do notice that it says songs owned 857 but when I did a library refresh to see if that would solve it I had 1415 downloads so something's off there too???

Comments

  • We're not spoiling the how.

    As for your song count, your console is just indexing content. Let it do its thing, don't start going around deleting songs.
  • Let me guess:

    Play + Maths Voodoo = Skill rating? ;)
  • HMXOwl said:

    We're not spoiling the how.

    As for your song count, your console is just indexing content. Let it do its thing, don't start going around deleting songs.

    No spoiling the owl, uh? Too bad for you ;)

    I read a theory on reddit that the main factor was the ratio of gold stars vs. total played song count [with FCs giving a small bonus, maybe brutal stars as well; can't remember].

    It would make sense, but I'd think there's a basic point allotment to start from based on the difficulty level most used (successfully) by the player.

    In any case, I'd really love to get more definite pointers on how I could improve my levels as well.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited October 2016
    It can't be so tightly GS based. A great deal of the skill range falls in the realm of people who don't even play expert; they'd all have 0 GSes, but there's plenty of difference exhibited in the system between people who 5-star hard and people who 4-star medium.


    It wouldn't surprise me if it's tied to the scoring system they use for crew XP: 150 points for expert 5S and -25 for every level or star below that, +25 for GS, +50 for FC, and evaluate all players based on points earned / songs played (or percentage of possible points), possibly normalized to a curve.
  • RidethePiggyRidethePiggy Road Warrior
    We've had some theories tossed about: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rockband/comments/58m432/how_does_the_skill_system_work_specifically/d91umnt/

    I'm sticking to the "more FC, Gold, 5* = more skill" as it should be. Much like baseball stats, you'd have to put in enough time (song plays) to qualify for the higher rank. Can't just go play one Impossible tier song, FC it on expert and expect to be ranked 1000.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    Do you think Tier even matters? I think that's one of the things people are trying to figure out. Whether a GS on a devil tiered song is actually delivering a higher skill value than a GS on a one-dot.
  • edited October 2016

    Do you think Tier even matters? I think that's one of the things people are trying to figure out. Whether a GS on a devil tiered song is actually delivering a higher skill value than a GS on a one-dot.

    That would make sense... We could guess that each star is worth a basic number of points, and that number increases per difficulty level AND tier.

    Edit: i'm currently ranked 835. I have a few GSs and FCs, but I've yet to play most of the songs from the last two tiers. I'm wondering, though, how an Expert 4 stars would compare to a Hard FC.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    If my theory is correct (they're reusing crew XP formula), expert 4 star and hard 5 star would be the same. Hard FC would be equal to expert GS (non-fc).
  • I have some time so I'll test that for a few hours by switching to hard on songs I have a tougher time at on Expert... I'll report back.
  • Well I still don't think my stats and that are calculated right as I said I played over 1100 songs but according to my stats I have
    236 gs
    35 ex fc
    131758192 total score
    852 songs owned but 1415 is what it says when the game checks for dlc
    116 total stars ?? How's that when I have 236gs and 35 fc wouldn't that be 271x5=1355 stars???
    This is my stats on the app I'll double check when I am home but I'm sure it says the same except the total score cuz someone made a bad decision and took it off

    I never started deleting anything I refreshed the library threw the In-game settings had to do it twice cuz the refresh stops at 1200 so had to restart the system to let it finish the remaining 215 that was how I was able to get the rival launch pack songs because they weren't showing up till I did the in-game refresh
  • "Skill: The Skill stat quantifies how skilled you are on an instrument based on your best scores on every song you've played. The Skill stat ranges from 0 to 1000."

    So I'm guessing from this if I say only played 1 song ever my skill would be calculated for that one song would
    0- being no score and 1000- being the best score anyone can possibly get on that one song
    That's what I am getting from what is stated in the rock band rivals features post on the forums.
  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    essadis said:

    Well I still don't think my stats and that are calculated right as I said I played over 1100 songs but according to my stats I have
    236 gs
    35 ex fc
    131758192 total score
    852 songs owned but 1415 is what it says when the game checks for dlc
    116 total stars ?? How's that when I have 236gs and 35 fc wouldn't that be 271x5=1355 stars???
    This is my stats on the app I'll double check when I am home but I'm sure it says the same except the total score cuz someone made a bad decision and took it off

    I never started deleting anything I refreshed the library threw the In-game settings had to do it twice cuz the refresh stops at 1200 so had to restart the system to let it finish the remaining 215 that was how I was able to get the rival launch pack songs because they weren't showing up till I did the in-game refresh

    116 stars is post patch.
  • And I think I found out RB4 disc songs weigh much more than any DLC in the skill calculation...

    More details later, but suffice to say for now that jacking 25 songs from 3-star expert to 5-star/FC hard (score improved on all of them) just improved my skill by 2 points.

    I then realized I still had 25 unplayed disc songs (yup, too many other easier songs to choose from in my library). I attempted two of them on hard. 5-starred one and 4-starred the other, for a 6-point skill loss with just those two.

    I'll have to check my star ratios for disc-only songs, but my little finger is telling me I'm better at DLC, lol.

    I'll keep working on this for fun.
  • TubaDude49TubaDude49 Road Warrior
    zabigg said:

    And I think I found out RB4 disc songs weigh much more than any DLC in the skill calculation...

    More details later, but suffice to say for now that jacking 25 songs from 3-star expert to 5-star/FC hard (score improved on all of them) just improved my skill by 2 points.

    I then realized I still had 25 unplayed disc songs (yup, too many other easier songs to choose from in my library). I attempted two of them on hard. 5-starred one and 4-starred the other, for a 6-point skill loss with just those two.

    I'll have to check my star ratios for disc-only songs, but my little finger is telling me I'm better at DLC, lol.

    I'll keep working on this for fun.

    I don't think it's that it counts more, per-se, but Total Disc Score is a stat, and likely a criterion for this.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    I don't think so. My bass skill number is higher than my guitar skill number (924 to 890), but as I've only played a handful of disc songs on bass, my guitar disc songs total score is more than 8x my bass disc songs total score (4886000 to 586000).
  • Yup. After fiddling, I realized that I only have 3 gold and 1 FC on disc-only songs, so the only way I'll manage to hike the skills is grind to get better on those. Getting great hard scores and FCs only gives me a very marginal boost, while moving a 4-star to 5 stars in expert appears to be more effective at raising my level. The good news is I found out the RB4 fender was dropping a lot of notes due to interference. I switched to my good ol' RB2 with the adapter, so I should be able to re-improve from longer streaks.
  • wh1t3kn1tewh1t3kn1te Opening Act
    as far as disc songs making more of an impact on skill than dlc, the other day I sung for the first time in the game to register spotlight scores. only did the three songs on expert and got 4 stars on one and 3 on the other two.

    my skill went from 0 to 281
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited October 2016
    Yeah, I am starting to believe that disc songs do have a bigger impact.

    I just went though some experimenting.

    My bass skill score went way up (from low 800s to low 900s) last week, primarily on GSFCs of the three Spotlight songs (Friday I'm In Love, Your Love, The One I Love).

    Started today with bass skill 924 but not all that many disc songs played.

    Played a nondisc song, GSFC'd it, still 924.

    Played that song again on Brutal, Crimson Starred it, still 924.

    Looked at my disc songs, saw that I only had a 3-star expert score showing on Metropolis, though that score was definitely from pre-Rivals. So I didn't know if it was actually contributing to skill calc. If it was, I figured I could log a new score to improve upon it.

    Played it on hard. 5 stars. Bass skill dropped from 924 to 917.
    Played it again on expert. Got 4 stars. Bass skill held at 917. (So now I have to deduce that the pre-rivals score was NOT contributing to skill calc, because this 4* score was strictly better than the 3* I had showing before at skill 924).

    Played several other unplayed, easier songs (What's Up, Cedarwood Road, Centuries, Caught Up In You), at least GSed them all, think I FCed 2 of the 4. Skill crept up to 918, then 919.

    Damn, playing Metropolis really did a lot of damage to skill calc that's gonna take a LOT of other songs to recover from. One 'bad' performance docks me 7 points and a new GS on a disc song seems to only earn back around 0.5 skill points per. So likely 14+ GSes to get back to where I was dropped from because of one four star score on a devil tiered song.

    That's just mean.
  • edited October 2016
    [troll] Explain why my skill score (690) on vox is horrendous (less than the top 1k of skill scores) and my disc song score rank is number 250. [/troll]

    Taunt to HMX: Please 'try to consult an expert at math' before attempting to 'derive skill ratings'. :disappointed:
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    Because a great deal of people who play vocals don't even bother trying to learn to sing songs they don't know and those songs remain scored 0 and unplayed. These players most likely have outscored you on the songs they actually did sing, but your disc song score beats theirs by virtue of you actually singing and earning a score on the likes of Johnny Blazes and Dark Wheels and Benjamin Booker, while they never bothered.
  • This gets more confusing the more I read of this.
  • edited October 2016
    I have a FGFC on Hard Guitar, why is my score only 709? I also have 5-starred every disc song on expert guitar, as well as have at least 30 GS's (most was done pre-patch). Please don't tell me I have to replay every single song (post-patch) just to get my skill back up, that would really suck...
  • gaiacatgaiacat Unsigned
    edited October 2016
    So, before rivals came out my psn was always on vocals when friends came over every other week. This led to a variety of completions, from three stars easy to fc expert. Before rivals i worked at getting rid of all under 5 stars and turned all to gold stars.

    I ended up with @250 gold stars on songs and @60 songs 5 stars on all levels easy-expert. I started rivals with a 972 rating. I gold starred @10 songs to get rid of easy med and some hard and jumped to 988. I think once i up score the remaining 8 or so on hard to expert i will be closer to 1000. I will report back if i get max score without goldstarring all songs- i.e. Having @30 5 star expert and not gold star.

    Edit: I have @650 songs in my list list that i havent played on rb4 yet (no score) and I have played all disc songs and gold starred most (not at home as i write this) of them. At the least all completed on expert and at least 5 star expert.
  • @gaiacat your stats confirm what I was thinking about the ratios. What's your disc score? Mine's only around 5,482,000 because I haven't played all disc songs yet. I have a feeling that all disc songs played is what gets the jump from the 800s to the 900s, as @TubaDude49 was saying earlier when we were discussing the weighing.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    But it is clear that some scores from before Rivals don't figure in the computation; see my Metropolis discussion above. So the unfortunate thing is, the end user can't tell which of their registered scores is figuring in the calculation and which ones are not. So they don't know which ones they need to 'improve' and which ones they're better off not even playing again. It's a real mess. I thought I had to improve on my Metropolis stars, but when I did my skill went down. I went from it showing me I had a 3 star expert (but actually being treated by the skill call as an unplayed), to completing 5 star hard and 4 star expert and having a much worse skill as a result.
  • OK. So I made a few findings today. I'm not sure about the score before Rivals. Maybe if they were erased in the leaderboard sweeps and you hadn't replayed the song since?

    Started at 837 skill

    I finished all disc songs, 12 unplayed played on Hard (the 12 toughest)
    Result:
    ten 5-S
    two 4-S

    Skill was now down to 828, which means I lost half a point of skill per new song played, even though I five-starred 10/12 on Hard.

    And, no, disc song score (up to 7,155,000 now) and on-disc song completion did not give any boost.
    I managed to up one of the four-star hard songs to five stars and a gained a skill point.
    Then I played a non-disc song, upped it from 5 stars to gold, and I gained a skill point.

    So, basically, you're penalized if you play a new song at a level lower than you usually do, and you gain one point when you improve one level on the same difficulty.


    Ratios for comparison

    864 songs total
    Gold = 97 (23 FC)
    5-star = 397
    4-star = 199
    3-star = 1
    0-stars = 170

    Moral of the story: if skill is important to you, improve your scores by using practice mode on your default difficulty level, but don't go down in difficulty – even a better score/leaderboard placement will still result in a loss of skill.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    Well, that sucks. I played some songs on lower modes to validate what the xp distribution was at differerent levels. I didn't expect it would permanently stunt me.
  • Wait... So skill can go down? If that's the case, then I wonder if overall user scores on songs is one of the big factors in this.
  • Yup. It does go down. Much faster if you have a large library – due to ratio.

    In contrast, here are my bass stats:

    Skill: 868

    864 songs total
    Gold = 53 (22 FC)
    5-star = 55
    4-star = 28
    3-star = 11
    0-stars = 717

    414 stars vs. 1281 for guitar
    disc score: 4,791,007


    A third of the song plays just blows way over, although bass is much easier than guitar. Funny. I'd think consistently playing well on many more songs would equal more skill. But I guess that's just me. At first, I was honestly just curious why people I kept beating and taunting were in the 900s while I remained in the low 800s, but now I understand that "skill" is more a factor of having played fewer songs than one of being versatile across the board.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    What I'm uncertain of... can skill go down because of a worse-then-previous replay of a song that is already figuring in your skill calculation? (IE, is the skill calculation based on your best recorded postrivals score for a song, or on your most-recent or average or some other function where your secondbest score matters?)

    I think the answer to that is no, only your best postrivals score for a song counts and later lesser plays don't hurt it. But it's a pain to be sure, because some prerivals scores show in your quickplay list despite not being used for your skill calc.



    But clearly, your score can go down on a poor score on a song that had no-score before you played it.
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