Do you think the way vocals are scored needs to be changed?

edited December 2017 in Rock Band
Given that my previous poll generated some discussion, I figured why not engage on another topic? Please discuss specific changes you would like to see made if you have any suggestions.

Do you think the way vocals are scored needs to be changed? 42 votes

The vocal scoring system needs a complete overhaul.
2%
tragedy719 1 vote
The vocal scoring system needs some changes.
14%
ekffazritzJVKalypsoIamtheplaguebdd74sny 6 votes
The vocal scoring system needs some minor tweaks.
9%
MistressDeviantzorbak00tati81Vexus 4 votes
The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.
69%
kanerulesLoopyChewtdc002Desvergerkal_el_0724ZigZag2005firedoom666twistedoakLord_MhoramNavyCherubLeCH24WoodenGloryhiimSMAPDangimarockerJadioualbert_24MCSMeisteryoann007GLaDOSTheMurals 29 votes
The vocal scoring system needs to be removed.
0%
Vocals need to be removed. (I only put this here for posterity, :P)
2%
uppyb0t 1 vote
I don't care about the vocal scoring system one way or another.
2%
LordFlatus 1 vote

Comments

  • edited December 2017
    The vocal scoring system needs some changes.
    I was thinking about this topic because I recently have starting doing the whole Rivals rigmarole and have been doing some vocals for our crew's spotlight scores. It seems to me that the way scoring can be manipulated by not singing, then activating overdrive and getting the rest of the phrase is kind of wonky. Beyond that though, I've always felt the vocal scoring method was a little lackluster compared to the guitar/bass and drums methods which I feel are much more accurate.

    I started trying to come up with a system that was more accurate for the score chasers and fixed the scoring manipulation issues. Not only that though, more importantly, I wanted whatever I came up with to not negatively impact the majority of more casual players who don't look twice at their score after singing a song. This is what I came up with:

    First, the way to retain combo remains the same (filling up the multiplier circle will keep your combo). This ensures that casual players aren't negatively impacted by the score related changes that come next. What I think is the case is that most non-competitive players look at, for confirmation on whether they did well after a song (if they look at anything), the percentage/star rating. These measures would remain unchanged in my system as long as the combo retaining process remains the same.

    Second, the actual score given for each measure is based on how accurately the each vocal segment (not phrase) is sung. This could displayed to the player by adding another circle next to the combo circle that only fills up completely if the segment is sung with perfect accuracy. Points would essentially be doled out based on how much they can fill the circle. This process could also be hidden if Harmonix preferred not to add another graphic to the screen.

    This would fix the ESF manipulation because it would no longer matter if you activated overdrive in the middle of phrase, because you already received the points before activation. On the plus side, for the score chasers, it would still offer a new (but more fair) way, to compete for the best score on the leaderboards (because now to get optimal, you'd have to sing every segment perfectly, not just FC the song and manipulate overdrive correctly). This is already what you have to do for guitar/bass and drums so I feel it's fair.

    Lastly, change it so overdrive can be activated any time via the controller. This change is not necessary (in my opinion) like the previous one, but given that it is now possible to activate OD via controller in the OD spaces, I feel like it's fair to allow it to be activated whenever like guitar/bass can (and keyboards used to). This shouldn't cause any major problems as Harmonix should be able to implement the anti-squeezing fixes they came up with (and if the same exact fixes wouldn't work, I'm sure they could figure another anti-squeezing fix out). Additionally, since the ESF manipulation was also fixed by the previous change, that wouldn't be a problem for this change either.

    I really tried to make sure the changes here wouldn't negatively impact any group of players (except the score manipulators). The one major downside would be that it would require yet another leaderboard wipe, but I feel like that needs to happen anyway because of the manipulation that happens right now. I feel like these changes would only further invigorate the score chasing community by allowing the to fairly compete on actual vocal merits rather than button pushing/timing ability. I mean just imagine, to get optimal on "More Than a Feeling", you would have to be able to hold that final note the whole time! You'd still be able to FC the song no problem, but to get optimal, tough cookies.
  • The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.
    If each vocal segment was scored instead of phrases, I would quit Rock Band. See Guitar Hero vocals for that abhorrent method of scoring.

    I think the current system is fine. If I were to tweak, I would negate talkies (no scoring for non singing parts), and eliminate tambourines. Only singing sections would score for vocals.

    As for the windows, I like the activation windows, but some would need to be tweaked (i.e. songs that gather 5 phrases before a window or make it impossible to use overdrive for long periods of time). As someone who voxtars, I can't always use the controller for activations and need a verbal way to start overdrive.

    I would imagine if you could activate at any point, some new way of abusing that would come about and be the new glitch for people to use.

    Bottom line, not enough people care about vocals to significantly change it anyways. Harmonix always goes by who it affects the most, and vocals is usually on the bottom for fixing issues.

    By the way, there is a simple fix without much fuss to fix ESF's if they are considered shady..... DONT PUT ACTIVATIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF PHRASES. End squeezes? Eliminated. If Harmonix truly hated this method of scoring, that's the fix that should be done. I personally don't mind esf's and they truly take skill to do, so I don't have a problem with them. If you are score chasing, you aren't performing the song anyways. This isn't karaoke if you are score chasing.
  • The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.
    @twistedoak
    I wouldn't negate talkies. That would render quite a few songs pointless.
    Tambourines are quite annoying though.


  • twistedoaktwistedoak Unsigned
    edited December 2017
    The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.
    I still have nightmares of talkies from rockband 1 and 2. Broken crap talkies ruining the song for you. There's only so many ways you can say "what is it" and "oh" for them to work...I still hate singing The Pixies and Cherry Bomb simply because of broken talkies from the past.

    They are still broken in effect. Nothing is worse than getting that stupid glitch for the one talky at the end of the song not working and ruining your fc. When I do a setlist of vocal songs, every 5th song or so has glitched talkies. I have to skip the song and do it later. Talkies are the bane of my singing experience in Rock Band. Only slightly worse is tambourines. Don't get me started on them.

    The beatles Rock Band had it perfect. No talky counted in that engine. Beautiful. Now you can Brutal FC a song on vocals that are solely talkies. That's really cheap. It would be like Brutal FC'ing a song on drums for simply holding the sticks in your hand and waving them around.
  • I don't care about the vocal scoring system one way or another.

    Now you can Brutal FC a song on vocals that are solely talkies. That's really cheap. It would be like Brutal FC'ing a song on drums for simply holding the sticks in your hand and waving them around. It's like playing Polly on drums to get a Brutal FC.

    ftfy
  • The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.

    Now you can Brutal FC a song on vocals that are solely talkies. That's really cheap. It would be like Brutal FC'ing a song on drums for simply holding the sticks in your hand and waving them around. It's like playing Polly on drums to get a Brutal FC.

    ftfy
    I have failed to FC that song because I got distracted...
  • The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.

    Now you can Brutal FC a song on vocals that are solely talkies. That's really cheap. It would be like Brutal FC'ing a song on drums for simply holding the sticks in your hand and waving them around. It's like playing Polly on drums to get a Brutal FC.

    ftfy
    I think my point was made. Cheap songs that take no skill can be brutal fc'ed. That's talkies for you.
  • MCSMeisterMCSMeister Road Warrior
    edited December 2017
    The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.

    Tambourines are quite annoying though.

    Not even going to lie, it took me a solid year after getting Rock Band 4 before realizing that you could hit tambourine notes by pressing X on the PlayStation controller.

    Made my life MUCH easier.
  • Tambourines are quite annoying though.

    Not even going to lie, it took me a solid year after getting Rock Band 4 before realizing that you could hit tambourine notes by pressing X on the PlayStation controller.

    Made my life MUCH easier.
    Yeah, being able to press a button for the tambourine notes makes it much easier as the microphones don't seem sensitive enough to pick up the other way. That said, songs would be way more fun without the tambourine notes especially In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.
  • twistedoaktwistedoak Unsigned
    edited December 2017
    The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.

    Tambourines are quite annoying though.

    Not even going to lie, it took me a solid year after getting Rock Band 4 before realizing that you could hit tambourine notes by pressing X on the PlayStation controller.

    Made my life MUCH easier.
    Yeah, being able to press a button for the tambourine notes makes it much easier as the microphones don't seem sensitive enough to pick up the other way. That said, songs would be way more fun without the tambourine notes especially In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.
    Or ttfaf, which is arguably the hardest tambourine section in Rock Band.

    To get you through those sections, try to imagine the actual artists whip out a tambourine and start going to town. I do that with James Hetfield on every Metallica song and crack up laughing.

  • LeCH24LeCH24 Opening Act
    The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.
    "It seems to me that the way scoring can be manipulated by not singing, then activating overdrive and getting the rest of the phrase is kind of wonky."

    It's called being tactical.

    Tactics are things you tend to find in games.
  • I don't care about the vocal scoring system one way or another.

    That said, songs would be way more fun without the tambourine notes especially In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.

    Doing nothing is more fun that doing something? Interesting...
  • I don't care about the vocal scoring system one way or another.

    Yeah, being able to press a button for the tambourine notes makes it much easier as the microphones don't seem sensitive enough to pick up the other way.

    I have my mics on mic stands and then clap in front of them for the percussion hits. I find that the funnest method. Bashing the crap out of the mic like the game tells you to do is a good way to need a new mic.

    I just wish HMX would chart more actual rhythms or poly-rhythms into it instead of just straight quarter notes, which is how the majority of songs do it.
  • The vocal scoring system needs some changes.
    This is why I like doing polls. It seems that the majority disagree with me and that's fair. I'd rather Harmonix not upset the fanbase than cater to my Twisted Dark Beautiful Fantasies so this is good to know! :)
  • The vocal scoring system is fine the way it is.

    ...

    Go play any Guitar Hero game on vocals and discover what horrible pain and suffering you are suggesting here.
  • The vocal scoring system needs some minor tweaks.
    Regarding talkies, how would something a bit like vocal freestyle sound? You don't have to hit a particular note, so long as it's a note that's within the key of the song. Then it would require at least a little bit of skill.
  • The vocal scoring system needs some minor tweaks.
    I'm kinda torn by this question. As a vocalist for 10 years now, I take the vocals system seriously. TBH, I chose for minor tweaks mostly from frustration. I think the way the game registers pitch and accuracy has been the best it has ever been, and the freestyle creates an interesting way to add your own style to the music. But I also can understand and relate to the fact that this also creates somewhat of an unfair competition for scores. To be competitive with the top scorers in Rivals you have to be able to do the ESFs; the method of only singing part of the line, but using this seems like cheating, and you have no chance of reaching the top of the leaderboards without it. On the other hand, this method causes competition that may not have existed without it, creating incentive for replays and more play overall to improve your skill. At least, that has been my experience. The only way to take away ESF is by getting rid of freestyle overall, so despite the frustrations, I believe the scoring is here to stay.
  • The vocal scoring system needs some minor tweaks.

    Seconded. After a while, it gets VERY tricky to focus on tambourine hits going as fast as in TTFAF.

    Yeah, what kind of sadist charted those taps?! :s Definitely not fun with arthritis, carpal tunnel and the like. "I Heard It Through the Grapevine" is another torture, but only for duration. TTAF takes the cake for the most painful. I'll just stick with the harmonies.
  • Here is my idea for dealing with ESFs in a way that would not penalize people who actually sing the entire song. You sing the first half of the phrase, the meter fills up halfway. Activate overdrive, sing the rest. The meter fills up more, but in purple. Once the purple hits the top of the circle in the meter, you have a 100% phrase that does not break combo. The purple keeps going if there is more of the phrase left, overlapping the blue. When the phrase ends, you get double points for the overdrive based on how much of the meter is purple.

    So if you get to 50%, activate, fill purple all the way to the top and then past that to the 3 o'clock position where 75% of the meter is purple, 7,000 points. Get it all the way around to where it started, 8,000 points.

    Another way to show it graphically would be to have the purple start at the top of the circle and follow the blue around, covering it up as it goes. So 50% blue, activate, purple fills from 12 o'clock to 6 as blue fills from 6 to 12. Full phrase, safe combo when blue hits 12, then purple keeps circling around for more double points. This way would make it easier to see just how much purple you are getting since it starts from the usual spot every time.
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