NEW RIVAL CHANGES - not good IMO

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gaiacatgaiacat Unsigned
edited May 10 in Rock Band






So those people with smaller libraries and play on lower difficulty levels are basically of no use to competitive crews. Got it.
These changes are horrible IMO

I am so disappointed. We have several players in the crew who have smaller libraries and need to play songs over and over to help with XP, and/or several that play medium. They have felt that they contributed and enjoyed getting bloodstone gear.

Unless there is a cap on XP a crew can get during a week, these changes will not stop grinding and will isolate casual players. Not cool.

Comments

  • dlleweldllewel Unsigned
    You have a fair point here. The XP component seemed to balance the spectrum so it wasn’t all based on skill (Spotlights). With XP also weighted toward skill it may have the effect Gaiacat mentioned.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    Where did the first chart come from? No more 1/2/3 play bonus, just "full credit" equally for all three first plays?
  • gaiacatgaiacat Unsigned
    charts come from @HMXOwl on the reddit forum
  • So, what's the solution? Not reward skilled players? That would be just as, if not more awful.
  • gaiacatgaiacat Unsigned
    The 100% may just track decay of XP and not include bonuses. Maybe @HMXOwl can explain this better to us.
  • Correct. Same as the last chart when we did per second stuff, these are BASE values. That means no modifiers.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    So only cobbled partial info pasted here on the official Rock Band forums?
  • GraffinGraffin Rising Star
    The fact I can now get 2567 XP on a single song is insane.

    I guess there's always been a disadvantage to those with smaller libraries or not having certain DLC, so the XP changes shouldn't make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, but it will be interesting to see how this change will affect us when we go for Bloodstone.
  • braves22braves22 Opening Act
    There has always been a disadvantage sure, but like one person said, this basically makes those who play at a lesser skill and with a lesser library feel inferior...

    And it seems like a cash grab more than anything to try and entice people to buy up more songs, which while it could be good could also backfire and bite them in the ass and then you have people just up and quit because they are of little to no use going forward.

    In my crew, we have people of all skill levels and everyone felt like each were pulling weight, but now that probably all changes...and not for the better.
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited May 11
    Honestly, I see this may cause Rivals to increase grinding rather than reduce unless the requirement for promotion is reduced. So like a good idea for better promotion tiers would be if the first challenge a tier appears, the promotion is 50+ then every subsequent challenge that the promotion is the last challenge +5 except Bronze which stays at 50+.

    Challenge 1
    Bronze: 50+

    Challenge 2
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 50+

    Challenge 3
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 55+
    Gold: 50+

    Challenge 4
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 60+
    Gold: 55+
    Platinum: 50+

    Challenge 5
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 65+
    Gold: 60+
    Platinum: 55+
    Diamond: 50+

    Challenge 6
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 70+
    Gold: 65+
    Platinum: 60+
    Diamond: 55+

    Challenge 7
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 75+
    Gold: 70+
    Platinum: 65+
    Diamond: 60+

    Challenge 8
    Bronze: 50+
    Silver: 80+
    Gold: 75+
    Platinum: 70+
    Diamond: 65+
  • nystargatenystargate Unsigned
    It will increase grinding by people who have small libraries and/or who can't play well on expert. Either that or it will cause them to quit playing Rivals.

    It will have no effect on grinding by the good Expert players.
  • It will increase grinding by people who have small libraries and/or who can't play well on expert. Either that or it will cause them to quit playing Rivals.

    It will have no effect on grinding by the good Expert players.

    It'll also affect good Expert players because taking breaks causes larger drops. You have to play even more to guarantee you're above.
  • djb5f1djb5f1 Unsigned
    edited May 11
    HMXOwl said:

    Correct. Same as the last chart when we did per second stuff, these are BASE values. That means no modifiers.

    So first 3 playthroughs on a song all count the same now? Is that correct?

    For the second chart, what do the raw numbers represent? I know I got over 1200 XP on a FC Expert 5 minute 3 second song so it looks like those values are what? per 3 minutes?

  • gaiacatgaiacat Unsigned
    Again, this information is on reddit and from @EwOOkie

    "New XP Changes and what i have figured out from trial and error. self.Rockband

    submitted 5 days ago * by ew00kie

    Here is the Breakdown of the new XP System that I figured out:

    Brutal 3.333 xp/sec for 5-Star 0.666 xp/sec for Crimson 0.666 xp/sec for Full Combo

    50% more Base XP for playing on Brutal

    Expert 2.222 xp/sec for 5-Star 0.444 xp/sec for Gold 0.666 xp/sec for Full Combo

    Hard 1.433 xp/sec for 5-Star 0.444 xp/sec for Full Combo

    Medium .777 xp/sec for 5-Star 0.222 xp/sec for Full Combo

    Easy .444 xp/sec for 5-Star 0.111 xp/sec for Full Combo

    0 Star or 1 Star on any difficulty will net you a 0 xp score.

    2 Star on any difficulty is .222 xp/sec.

    5 Star on Expert is slightly lower than a 3 Star on Brutal

    5 Star on Hard is slightly lower than a 3 Star on Expert

    5 Star on Medium is slightly lower than a 3 Star on Hard"
  • Am I the only one who thinks that the higher XP for harder songs should be an incentive for people to up a difficulty level? It counts no-fail plays*, and with it, you can generally get at least a 3 in most cases. The fact you get more for a 3 on the next difficulty than a 5 on your current (as well as gold/crimson not being a thing on easy/medium/hard) means that generally, you've got nothing to lose by going up.

    *I believe it also counts freestyle guitar solo play for XP, but not spotlight scores
  • Brutal vox is easy to exploit so that's a big problem. For example there's plenty of talkies songs in the pre-RB4 era so that's insanely easy XP for a lot of this season's challenges.
  • GraffinGraffin Rising Star
    The only way to prevent grinding is to lower the requirements to get promoted as you suggested.

    I used to play expert vocals + medium guitar whilst my partner played drums on hard and we managed to get to diamond each season, but getting to bloodstone was impossible, even with a library of 2000+ songs.

    Even with a full crew that consists of expert players on all instruments we really struggled to get promoted to bloodstone. We got it on the 3rd and final week of season 5, but it shouldn't have been that hard. It was the spotlight xp that was killing us, but we had to grind a hell of lot of crew xp to stay in it, and only just scraped through.

    I think in the first week we were on diamond, only 20 crews were promoted to bloodstone. The 2nd week, another 15-20 were promoted, so with us sitting in 54th spot, we were lucky to make it in the 3rd and final week.

    It just seems way, way too easy to go from bronze to silver to gold to platinum. Going from platinum to diamond takes a bit of work, but it's doable. Bloodstone is a nightmare with such a tiny promotion zone window. That needs to be increased, or at the very least, doubled.
  • No need to be theoretical or hopeful.

    http://www.harmonixmusic.com/blog/season-6-is-nearly-here/
    The Blog said:

    2. We are adjusting the promotional thresholds for some of the tiers to complement the XP changes we're making - we definitely want to make sure that the folks who aren't playing on Brutal or Expert have a chance for promotion.

  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited May 11

    Yes, it should be easy to get promoted at the lower levels. But Bloodstone should be hard to get to.

    Frankly, if your group is not good at playing on Expert - you shouldn't be able to get there.

    The name of the game we are playing is called Rivals, not Feel Good Friends Where Everyone Wins The Same Prize.

    There's a difference between promotion being hard and having to play Rivals challenges for insane amounts of time to promote even for a good Expert crew.

    Rivals is meant to be fun, not a case of "you will not promote if you dare to play a different game for any amount of time".
  • Yea. I gotta play my LEGO games sometime.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star

    Rivals is meant to be fun, not a case of "you will not promote if you dare to play a different game for any amount of time".

    If your mindset is "I must always make Bloodstone every single challenge because... ME!!!", then Rivals probably isn't that fun anyway.
  • Rivals is meant to be fun, not a case of "you will not promote if you dare to play a different game for any amount of time".

    If your mindset is "I must always make Bloodstone every single challenge because... ME!!!", then Rivals probably isn't that fun anyway.
    Promoting to Bloodstone every season because of the rewards. Outside of how much grinding is involved for promotion to Diamond and more so Bloodstone, Rivals is generally fun.
  • rkbdgurlrkbdgurl Road Warrior
    edited May 11
    I don't fully understand all the ins and outs of the changes, but I do think bloodstone should be hard to get. Even as I'm saying this I know our band may well be one that doesn't make it every season. We've had to play like crazy people to get there, and skill is very important. Bloodstone hasn't always happened for us, but when it does, it's because we earned it. At least we feel like we did.
    The thing is though, what ever HMX does, won't please everyone, or every crew. That's why you change your crew and change your strategy as you learn how to move up through the ranks. We started out in our crew with family. The most difficult thing to do is to kick family or friends, but to compete for bloodstone, you need players who will perform. My rule is, you don't have to kill yourself, but you have to at least play. ( I have had friends and family who would not play at all for weeks at a time.) So with loving apologies, as gently as possible they were kicked. I prefer to call it "letting them go" which sounds so much kinder. It's not personal, and we open up slots for more committed or skilled players to join ranks. (It's funny that people who contribute nothing to a crew, never just leave on their own.)
    Here's the thing....if you want to be at the top, you have to work to be at the top. It's not easy, and it shouldn't be easy, otherwise no one would want it, and no one would care.
    Now, here is an idea ...If Bloodstone becomes too easy at some point, then it may be time to add another tier. Like Emerald or something. I like emeralds. My crew might never get there, as it's hard enough getting to bloodstone, but for those "over-achievers" it could be a lot of fun, and a new challenge for them.

    This is way off topic, but while I'm talking about goals and rankings, I think there should be silver blinking stars for those of us who just can't quite get the 5 gold stars or come really really close to fc's. flashy silver stars would make me feel so much better about my efforts. Can you please make that happen HMX :p
  • patl175patl175 Unsigned
    rkbdgurl said:


    This is way off topic, but while I'm talking about goals and rankings, I think there should be silver blinking stars for those of us who just can't quite get the 5 gold stars or come really really close to fc's. flashy silver stars would make me feel so much better about my efforts. Can you please make that happen HMX :p

    I kinda agree with you if there was something like that (silver stars) i would probably be one of the champions in that, there is so many songs that i am very close to gold stars and no matter how often i play them, i can't improve enough to get them
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    I've had so many "there isn't even one pixel left, yet I didn't quite get GS" runs that I wish the stars didn't fill!
  • SmashManSmashMan Rising Star

    Outside of how much grinding is involved for promotion to Diamond and more so Bloodstone, Rivals is generally fun.

    ...what else is there? Grinding for a higher tier and leaderboard position is the core of Rivals mode, no?
  • SmashMan said:

    Outside of how much grinding is involved for promotion to Diamond and more so Bloodstone, Rivals is generally fun.

    ...what else is there? Grinding for a higher tier and leaderboard position is the core of Rivals mode, no?
    I'm using grinding to mean at and after the point which earning XP is no longer enjoyable which usually happens when trying to promote to Diamond and Bloodstone.
  • edited May 12
    I have to say I love these changes. So you don't like that worse players that don't play on expert can't compete with the ones that can play expert? That's like saying: Pff why can't bronze LoL players compete in the LCS? It's because they haven't trained or have the skill to get to that level. Bloodstone and Diamond should be reserved for the very best, not the ones that just grind normal all day and doesn't wanna try hard or expert.

    What I'm trying to say: Git Gud
  • GraffinGraffin Rising Star

    Yes, it should be easy to get promoted at the lower levels. But Bloodstone should be hard to get to.

    Frankly, if your group is not good at playing on Expert - you shouldn't be able to get there.

    The name of the game we are playing is called Rivals, not Feel Good Friends Where Everyone Wins The Same Prize.

    By all means, it should be hard, but not near impossible or so exclusive that only 15-20 crews get promoted from diamond to bloodstone each week.

    There's grinding and there's grinding. We hit diamond on the first go, and had 3 weeks to get bloodstone. First week we were well and truly out of it. 2nd week, we got an amazing spotlight score... all gold starred, with 94-100% on all of the songs, but that wasn't enough, so we tried and tried to get there with crew XP, but I personally grinded for 40 hours in that week, and we still fell short. It shouldn't be *that* hard.

    The post that HMXowl put up implies they will make the promotion zone a lil larger, so hopefully that makes it more possible for those who play on lower levels the opportunity to get promoted to a higher rank.

    What is the reward for Season 6 anyways?

    Since I missed out on the blinking bloodstone helmet, could we get a shirt that has an equalizer on the front that reacts to the music?
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