NEW RIVAL CHANGES - not good IMO

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Comments

  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited May 12

    I have to say I love these changes. So you don't like that worse players that don't play on expert can't compete with the ones that can play expert? That's like saying: Pff why can't bronze LoL players compete in the LCS? It's because they haven't trained or have the skill to get to that level. Bloodstone and Diamond should be reserved for the very best, not the ones that just grind normal all day and doesn't wanna try hard or expert.

    What I'm trying to say: Git Gud

    And if this was an individual leaderboard that would be fine. But it isn’t. It’s a leaderboard for social groupings that we were encouraged to form under the old rule set, we formed them with an eye to being ‘good enough is good enough’, and now that they’re changing the rules they’re disrupting the very social networks they encouraged people to establish.

    It’s not saying ‘git gud’, it’s saying “git new friends because suddenly we want you to tell your old friends that were gud enough to be your friends for the past six seasons that they aren’t gud enough to be your friends anymore.”
  • I have to say I love these changes. So you don't like that worse players that don't play on expert can't compete with the ones that can play expert? That's like saying: Pff why can't bronze LoL players compete in the LCS? It's because they haven't trained or have the skill to get to that level. Bloodstone and Diamond should be reserved for the very best, not the ones that just grind normal all day and doesn't wanna try hard or expert.

    What I'm trying to say: Git Gud

    And if this was an individual leaderboard that would be fine. But it isn’t. It’s a leaderboard for social groupings that we were encouraged to form under the old rule set, we formed them with an eye to being ‘good enough is good enough’, and now that they’re changing the rules they’re disrupting the very social networks they encouraged people to establish.

    It’s not saying ‘git gud’, it’s saying “git new friends because suddenly we want you to tell your old friends that were gud enough to be your friends for the past six seasons that they aren’t gud enough to be your friends anymore.”
    If anything, it's saying "Please try and git gud because we will reward you more for an attempt than if you stay just kinda okayish."

    I cannot even understand how wanting Rivals to be any other way is anything other than an attempt to totally undermine the competitive nature of it. In a fair competition, the best should come out on top and I mean no offense at all when I say that Expert players are better than Hard players, who are better than Medium players, who are better than Easy players.

    I do have something of a solution that might appease both sides though - perhaps some tips and/or additional tutorials that make it easier for people to make the jump from one difficulty to the next? I know people who still don't realise that it's easier to play hard/expert by putting their index finger on red, middle finger on yellow, ring finger on blue and pinky on orange and move their finger(s) up to hit green (and any green-including chords) rather than putting them on green/red/yellow/blue and moving down for orange (+chords), for example.
  • djb5f1djb5f1 Unsigned
    edited May 12

    Woah, do people actually play like that? That would mess me up so much, no way could I recondition my brain that index finger was red (and not the middle) and so on. Your pinky quickly adapts to reaching over to the orange and holds its own. If you had played some time on Medium before jumping up to Hard/Expert, I think repositioning your base would really throw you off but more power to you if you did it.

    Is this common?
  • Another issue with Brutal being worth so much more than expert, just like "Wants to play Rivals Challenge songs" only being optional it promotes playing alone over playing online multiplayer.

    So if it ends up being long term that Brutal is worth much more than expert, Brutal mode needs to be added to online multiplayer.
  • djb5f1 said:


    Woah, do people actually play like that? That would mess me up so much, no way could I recondition my brain that index finger was red (and not the middle) and so on. Your pinky quickly adapts to reaching over to the orange and holds its own. If you had played some time on Medium before jumping up to Hard/Expert, I think repositioning your base would really throw you off but more power to you if you did it.

    Is this common?

    If you watch people like JasonParadise, Acai etc. on YouTube, Twitch etc. (basically anyone who posts/streams GH/RB/Clone Hero videos), that's the technique they use.

    I reprogrammed myself to do back in my GH3 days - by bending my thumb around and using that to hit the green. That is weird even for me! I still very occasionally bring the thumb in, but 99% of the time, I just move the index up to hit green, index and middle for GR chords and those plus ring for GRY.
  • BachiGBachiG Inconceivable...

    Another issue with Brutal being worth so much more than expert, just like "Wants to play Rivals Challenge songs" only being optional it promotes playing alone over playing online multiplayer.

    So if it ends up being long term that Brutal is worth much more than expert, Brutal mode needs to be added to online multiplayer.

    +1

    ...and while we’re at it, can we move “Play a Show” to online multiplayer, too?
  • djb5f1djb5f1 Unsigned
    djb5f1 said:

    HMXOwl said:

    Correct. Same as the last chart when we did per second stuff, these are BASE values. That means no modifiers.

    So first 3 playthroughs on a song all count the same now? Is that correct?

    For the second chart, what do the raw numbers represent? I know I got over 1200 XP on a FC Expert 5 minute 3 second song so it looks like those values are what? per 3 minutes?

    Anyone able to answer this? @HMXOwl ? Thanks!
  • edited May 12
    This is from @HMXOwl on Reddit: "And for those interested in hard numbers, here's the straight data on how XP per song has changed. The 'Base' numbers listed here refer to a song that's exactly 3:45 in length. https://i.imgur.com/61dSjVv.png "

    Also, we just tested to get the numbers for the play bonuses. The play bonus is the same on any difficulty. 1st play bonus is 30% of the base amount for expert 5 stars, 2nd play bonus is 10%, and 3rd play bonus is 5%.

    The number of XP points for the the 1st play is the same as before, but the bonus is much smaller relative to the new base XP. The 2nd and 3rd play bonuses are half of what they use to be.
  • djb5f1djb5f1 Unsigned

    This is from @HMXOwl on Reddit: "And for those interested in hard numbers, here's the straight data on how XP per song has changed. The 'Base' numbers listed here refer to a song that's exactly 3:45 in length. https://i.imgur.com/61dSjVv.png "

    Also, we just tested to get the numbers for the play bonuses. The play bonus is the same on any difficulty. 1st play bonus is 30% of the base amount for expert 5 stars, 2nd play bonus is 10%, and 3rd play bonus is 5%.

    The number of XP points for the the 1st play is the same as before, but the bonus is much smaller relative to the new base XP. The 2nd and 3rd play bonuses are half of what they use to be.

    Thanks for all of this. Much appreciated!

  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    djb5f1 said:


    Woah, do people actually play like that? That would mess me up so much, no way could I recondition my brain that index finger was red (and not the middle) and so on. Your pinky quickly adapts to reaching over to the orange and holds its own. If you had played some time on Medium before jumping up to Hard/Expert, I think repositioning your base would really throw you off but more power to you if you did it.

    Is this common?

    Dude, "Home Position 2" is the key to getting gud!

    Some songs even require Home Position 3 to keep from fatiguing your pinky from excessive Yellow/Blue/Orange charting shenanigans.

    It's one of the beautiful things about this game. Many of the song charts really capture the feel of actually playing the song on a real guitar without having to learn guitar if you shift your hand around. The ironic thing is you really don't notice unless you play real guitar.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    Back to the topic at hand...

    I'm interested to see how my crew shakes out in the new paradigm. We were a "Bloodstone on the last or second to last week" type of crew, getting the "Top 5%" badge each season except season zero.

    It'll be interesting to see if the changes prove that we really are a legit top level crew and allow us to easily accede to our beloved Bloodstone, or if the New World Order will expose us as frauds who were just sneaking in. I can't wait to find out!
  • Back to the topic at hand...

    I'm interested to see how my crew shakes out in the new paradigm. We were a "Bloodstone on the last or second to last week" type of crew, getting the "Top 5%" badge each season except season zero.

    It'll be interesting to see if the changes prove that we really are a legit top level crew and allow us to easily accede to our beloved Bloodstone, or if the New World Order will expose us as frauds who were just sneaking in. I can't wait to find out!

    Jealous. My crews has never made bloodstone but always end up in the top 5%. Super frustrating. Pretty sure bloodstone accounts for like the top 2% or less which is kind of ridiculous.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    Ps side starts around 4000 crews most bronze weeks. Around 75-80 crews wind up in bs at the end of week 8. So yeah, pretty near 2% of the starting pool, never mind the crews that register their first play after bronze week.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star
    Now those are some interesting stats! I always thought that 5% badge was a subset of BS, not a superset. :)
  • Now those are some interesting stats! I always thought that 5% badge was a subset of BS, not a superset. :)

    Or the top 5% , which ranges from X% to 5%, crosses the diamond/BS threshold.
  • LordFlatusLordFlatus Rising Star

    Now those are some interesting stats! I always thought that 5% badge was a subset of BS, not a superset. :)

    Or the top 5% , which ranges from X% to 5%, crosses the diamond/BS threshold.
    Isn't that what I said?
  • jaystonepkjaystonepk Opening Act
    djb5f1 said:


    Woah, do people actually play like that? That would mess me up so much, no way could I recondition my brain that index finger was red (and not the middle) and so on. Your pinky quickly adapts to reaching over to the orange and holds its own. If you had played some time on Medium before jumping up to Hard/Expert, I think repositioning your base would really throw you off but more power to you if you did it.

    Is this common?

    I consider index Red my base position but until RB4 I never got above medium guitar. Alternating between my ring and pinky is damn near impossible for me so I absolutely HAD TO move away from my index Green base position. I probably wouldn't be as close to the 900 skill trophy still playing the old way. It does take time to retrain your brain but once you do it's like riding a bike going back to index Green.
  • tati81tati81 Opening Act
    edited May 14
    I saw the changes today when I played Brutal, gawd I never earned 1200 points in one song!
  • CAL022CAL022 Opening Act
    FC'd In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida on expert bass and got 4,110 XP :o
    Getting to level 100 got a bit easier!
  • thewickedchildthewickedchild Opening Act
    Re:positioning... I shift my hand as necessary. It really depends on the chart. I don't really have a set "home" position...
  • wh1t3kn1tewh1t3kn1te Opening Act
    so before the update i would get 6-7k per day i played, now i can get 15-20k in the same time frame. bloodstone week is going to be interesting.
  • patl175patl175 Unsigned
    Bloodstone weeks are going to be insane, my crew is at 432000xp at the moment and we never made more than 300000xp on a week to make it to bloodstone, WE ARE IN THE FIRST WEEK of the season, it is going to be totally nuts... I'm expecting over 1 000 000 xp is going to be needed for bs this season
  • djb5f1djb5f1 Unsigned
    patl175 said:

    Bloodstone weeks are going to be insane, my crew is at 432000xp at the moment and we never made more than 300000xp on a week to make it to bloodstone, WE ARE IN THE FIRST WEEK of the season, it is going to be totally nuts... I'm expecting over 1 000 000 xp is going to be needed for bs this season

    It is still essentially the same number of song plays. It does not matter how much XP is awarded per song. The mechanics work the same.
  • patl175patl175 Unsigned
    djb5f1 said:


    patl175 said:

    Bloodstone weeks are going to be insane, my crew is at 432000xp at the moment and we never made more than 300000xp on a week to make it to bloodstone, WE ARE IN THE FIRST WEEK of the season, it is going to be totally nuts... I'm expecting over 1 000 000 xp is going to be needed for bs this season

    It is still essentially the same number of song plays. It does not matter how much XP is awarded per song. The mechanics work the same.
    I know but some bands are going nuts this season, we are not able to maintain our past seasons ranking thus far
  • wh1t3kn1tewh1t3kn1te Opening Act
    i know I am going to use this season to try to get as close to level 100 as I can
  • ZenzukiZenzuki Unsigned
    edited May 16
    BachiG said:

    Another issue with Brutal being worth so much more than expert, just like "Wants to play Rivals Challenge songs" only being optional it promotes playing alone over playing online multiplayer.

    So if it ends up being long term that Brutal is worth much more than expert, Brutal mode needs to be added to online multiplayer.

    +1

    ...and while we’re at it, can we move “Play a Show” to online multiplayer, too?
    +1

    ... and just for s&g's, can we up the level cap to say 150/200? With all these gigantic xp numbers we're getting now, I think it may be time to allow us who've been stuck at 100 for while to start working it again! (Also, make it so the instrument coin on our results screen, does a little flip every so often showing our level). Be nice to show it off to others than just our crewmates on the app! :neutral:
  • patl175patl175 Unsigned
    Zenzuki said:

    stuck at 100 for while to start working it again!

    Wait, WHAT! Stuck at level 100 for a while?!?! Man how much do you play??? I'm often the number 1 most xp (in my tier which is not always the top of the current week) but i haven't reach level 100 yet (almost though i'm lvl 99 and 80k away from it). I should hit it within the next challenge :smiley:
  • One of the greatest aspects of the Rock Band franchise is the ability for people of varying skill levels to play together. A band can be made up of Experts and Beginners, and it's still fun.

    Previously, when playing a challenge with the kids, they could feel like they were contributing, because even though they were playing on Medium or Hard, they'd get as many XP on a song as me. The new formula is going to reduce the value of their contribution.

    I also feel like the new XP numbers I am racking up cheapen the totals that people have previously achieved. I've been playing like crazy and it has taken months and months to get to level 72. Suddenly it doesn't look so hard.
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