LP and Rivals challenge

SparkyBobOmbSparkyBobOmb Unsigned
edited November 2018 in Rock Band
Dear Harmonix,

Please remove the LP scores in factoring the Rivals challenge total scores. It presents a big disadvantage to us casual players during the challenge week. A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs. The previous system you had in place without this LP score I felt worked out very well.

Thanks for listening.

Comments

  • Dear Sparky,

    Git gud.

    Thanks for listening.
  • DesvergerDesverger Opening Act
    Wouldn't the Spotlight score provide a bigger disadvantage to casual players? LP is essentially a hybrid of score chasing (Spotlight) and time/effort (XP). Casuals can build an LP score through judicious song choice and additional play, whereas significantly increasing a Spotlight total this way would be unlikely.

    A more legitimate argument against LP would be that it provides a benefit to DLC purchasers (milking LP by playing less-popular songs). The weakness of this argument is that Spotlight provides an even more marked advantage; if none of your crew has a specific song, your Spotlight potential is dramatically reduced.

    tl;dr: Please keep LP HMX.
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    By this point in the season the casual players are in tiers with the other casual players. The competitive crews have all long since bloodstoned. There’s no dominant competitive crew that is shredding up Platinum this week. Every crew in Platinum this week is casual.
  • A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
  • HMXOwl said:

    A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
    This isn't really true. You really need to be able to put up elite scores on songs to get lots of LP or happen to have somewhat obscure DLC that a lot of people don't have/aren't playing that week. My crew was short on LP last week and I was searching for ways to get more, but because the number of weekly song choices has been much lower this season, I had less options to score LP. I'm not elite and couldn't beat any of the top scores already out there and I also couldn't find any obscure songs that other people weren't playing.
  • I like LP a lot for me because with my large song library LP is where I can legitimately contribute to my crew. I'm not good enough to take hardly any spotlight spots and I'm not an XP grinder, but with two or three nights of judicious LP chasing I can actually move the needle.
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited November 2018
    KidSleez said:

    HMXOwl said:

    A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
    This isn't really true. You really need to be able to put up elite scores on songs to get lots of LP or happen to have somewhat obscure DLC that a lot of people don't have/aren't playing that week. My crew was short on LP last week and I was searching for ways to get more, but because the number of weekly song choices has been much lower this season, I had less options to score LP. I'm not elite and couldn't beat any of the top scores already out there and I also couldn't find any obscure songs that other people weren't playing.
    Both of you are right, the bigger problem was that only challenge 5 and 8 had a decent amount of eligible challenge songs this season.
  • KidSleez said:

    HMXOwl said:

    A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
    This isn't really true. You really need to be able to put up elite scores on songs to get lots of LP or happen to have somewhat obscure DLC that a lot of people don't have/aren't playing that week. My crew was short on LP last week and I was searching for ways to get more, but because the number of weekly song choices has been much lower this season, I had less options to score LP. I'm not elite and couldn't beat any of the top scores already out there and I also couldn't find any obscure songs that other people weren't playing.
    That's an upper limit, not a flaw in the system. Remember, Rivals is a competition, you are not guaranteed to move through it at the speed or comfort you would necessarily like. It doesn't sound like you swapped instruments or asked other members of your Crew to chip in, so maybe there are other avenues for you in future weeks even.

    A Crew is ten people, not one. If you aren't the best person in the Crew, then someone else likely has room for gains. If you are the best person in the Crew, you're apparently in a fair placement, no?
  • edited November 2018
    HMXOwl said:

    KidSleez said:

    HMXOwl said:

    A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
    This isn't really true. You really need to be able to put up elite scores on songs to get lots of LP or happen to have somewhat obscure DLC that a lot of people don't have/aren't playing that week. My crew was short on LP last week and I was searching for ways to get more, but because the number of weekly song choices has been much lower this season, I had less options to score LP. I'm not elite and couldn't beat any of the top scores already out there and I also couldn't find any obscure songs that other people weren't playing.
    That's an upper limit, not a flaw in the system. Remember, Rivals is a competition, you are not guaranteed to move through it at the speed or comfort you would necessarily like. It doesn't sound like you swapped instruments or asked other members of your Crew to chip in, so maybe there are other avenues for you in future weeks even.

    A Crew is ten people, not one. If you aren't the best person in the Crew, then someone else likely has room for gains. If you are the best person in the Crew, you're apparently in a fair placement, no?
    I'm talking about on a personal level though. My crew certainly has opportunities to gain LP. We have a few great players. However, we're rarely going to have high enough scores on songs to grab all available LP on any given song. Considering the number of challenge songs has been on the low end most weeks this season (even assuming every player has all available songs in a challenge, which obviously isn't the case), I'm personally never going to be able to contribute much to LP for my team because I can't put up elite scores and I'm unlikely to find some obscure song that nobody's playing.

    Admittedly, we're mainly a casual crew, but we've made Bloodstone before. LP now provides a significant barrier for us to make it back there. Last week I played 60+ songs and contributed 32K XP. I was trying to make a last minute run towards Bloodstone and made progress in XP. But I couldn't move the needle at all in LP, so it didn't help my crew in that regard.
  • Yeah, I enjoy weeks like this that have a lot of songs available for LP. Benefits players with a large catalog and maybe more incentive for others to expand theirs,
  • twistedoaktwistedoak Unsigned
    edited November 2018
    KidSleez said:

    HMXOwl said:

    KidSleez said:

    HMXOwl said:

    A lot of us aren't going for top scores when playing songs.

    So don't. Your Crew can put up up to FORTY scores per song to reach 20k XP. Communication within a varied Crew is all you need to get a lot of LP.
    This isn't really true. You really need to be able to put up elite scores on songs to get lots of LP or happen to have somewhat obscure DLC that a lot of people don't have/aren't playing that week. My crew was short on LP last week and I was searching for ways to get more, but because the number of weekly song choices has been much lower this season, I had less options to score LP. I'm not elite and couldn't beat any of the top scores already out there and I also couldn't find any obscure songs that other people weren't playing.
    That's an upper limit, not a flaw in the system. Remember, Rivals is a competition, you are not guaranteed to move through it at the speed or comfort you would necessarily like. It doesn't sound like you swapped instruments or asked other members of your Crew to chip in, so maybe there are other avenues for you in future weeks even.

    A Crew is ten people, not one. If you aren't the best person in the Crew, then someone else likely has room for gains. If you are the best person in the Crew, you're apparently in a fair placement, no?
    I'm talking about on a personal level though. My crew certainly has opportunities to gain LP. We have a few great players. However, we're rarely going to have high enough scores on songs to grab all available LP on any given song. Considering the number of challenge songs has been on the low end most weeks this season (even assuming every player has all available songs in a challenge, which obviously isn't the case), I'm personally never going to be able to contribute much to LP for my team because I can't put up elite scores and I'm unlikely to find some obscure song that nobody's playing.

    Admittedly, we're mainly a casual crew, but we've made Bloodstone before. LP now provides a significant barrier for us to make it back there. Last week I played 60+ songs and contributed 32K XP. I was trying to make a last minute run towards Bloodstone and made progress in XP. But I couldn't move the needle at all in LP, so it didn't help my crew in that regard.
    LP is basically a xp category on steroids. The more you play the better lp you get with a cap (If only xp had a cap...) Those with large libraries get rewarded, and those who play more get rewarded with both xp and lp.

    If you played 60+ songs and got 32k lp (an average of about 500 lp per song), it sounds like you were playing only on guitar or vocals without paths. Try switching up instruments. Try bass and see if you get more lp. Try drums and see if you get more lp. Those instruments traditionally have less people playing them, so the reward is greater if you are anxious to get lp.

    As Owl said (can't believe I'm actually agreeing with him), communicate with your crew. Make sure that you are hitting all songs with different instruments. Have the dude with the largest library play the songs that only he/she has. If you are over 20k in a single song, don't play that one anymore if you are going only for lp. The biggest place for gain are the songs you can fc and can do well on. If you want lp, you might have to make more of an effort to get a better score. I always go for high scores when I play. I know I'm not as good as others, but if I can get a PR, that's the best I can do, right?

    At 500 lp per song, you will definitely not be at the top of the lp boards, but you can definitely improve your lp scores if communicate with the crew and come up with a solid strategy to get more lp.

  • XP: Grinding
    Spotlights: Playing 3 songs against everyone else very well

    LP: How consistently "good" are you on the songs you play? This has multiple factors:
    * If you play songs nobody plays, you're always #1, with 10,000 LP
    * It promotes "Wide Library" players. These are the players that have spent money on music. You won't do well in LP if you have just the default tracks.

    * "Wide library" players are the "meat and potatoes" of the game. There are so many songs out there you should have plenty of opportunities to pick up $3 worth of songs a week and it's something you can enjoy.

    Side comment: Bing rewards - pretty easy to get Xbox game cards using Bing, and you can get that 1 song per week for 'free' if you're using their search engine. Actually some searches are better there, in my opinion, but consider making the switch if you're cash strapped.

    I have just below 800 songs and routinely put up 100,000 -> 500,000 LP in a challenge.

    When playing for LP, if I've missed a 'dumb note' early, or a power phrase, I'll typically re-start or re-play. Focus on not missing the 'easy stuff' to optimize for LP.

    -ChezButter

  • tdc002tdc002 Road Warrior

    Side comment: Bing rewards - pretty easy to get Xbox game cards using Bing, and you can get that 1 song per week for 'free' if you're using their search engine. Actually some searches are better there, in my opinion, but consider making the switch if you're cash strapped.

    I second this (though it's technically called Microsoft Rewards now). Redeeming Rewards Points for $3 and $5 Xbox gift cards every few weeks is how I buy most of my DLC.

  • LeCH24LeCH24 Opening Act
    Vexus said:

    Dear Sparky,

    Git gud.

    Thanks for listening.

    Also hit moar notez
  • LP is unfair when a challenge includes legacy songs that are no longer available for purchase. How are we supposed to compete when the #1 crew who owns every song ever put in the game maxes out the LP and there are 2 songs they own that I cannot purchase? It is not an even playing field for LP unless we are made available all the same songs to compete with and purchase. We get penalized for not being able to go back in time and purchase these songs when they were still available. Please do something about this before season 9. Don't know if it's worth investing any more money in purchasing songs for "pay to win" LP unless we can all compete for the same max score.
  • edited November 2018
    finite4 said:

    LP is unfair when a challenge includes legacy songs that are no longer available for purchase. How are we supposed to compete when the #1 crew who owns every song ever put in the game maxes out the LP and there are 2 songs they own that I cannot purchase? It is not an even playing field for LP unless we are made available all the same songs to compete with and purchase. We get penalized for not being able to go back in time and purchase these songs when they were still available. Please do something about this before season 9. Don't know if it's worth investing any more money in purchasing songs for "pay to win" LP unless we can all compete for the same max score.

    As I read this I pictured your avatar as your actual face, sorry.
  • There was a thread on reddit about delisted songs and the ramifications of lp a few weeks ago. Several suggestions were introduced such as putting a cap lower than just 20k times the number of songs on total lp per week (delisted songs would still count, but it would take into account crews that didn't have access to those songs). If you get a chance, look it up on reddit.

    Otherwise, lp is completely useless if you removed all imports and delisted songs (only those who took advantage of those have them). While we're at it, why punish those who can't afford large libraries? It's a slippery slope when you start to remove songs.
  • No issues with XP or LP containing delisted songs. It is the way it should be. Those songs are meant to be played too. With all the songs that are available to play each week, it is such a negligible advantage, a total non-factor in advancement.

    I honestly would be fine with a Spotlight song being a delisted song. I know it will never happen but it would be be pretty cool to shake things up for a week. I feel most of the top crews have members who have been playing forever and likely own most delisted songs.

    If for some reason, your crew does not, it would be a good one-week test to either offset with slightly more XP/LP or recruit someone who does. Let’s spice it up for a week.
  • Eh, I would like them to "spice it up a bit" in terms of spotlight songs (particularly not always including a rb4/rivals song if it's one we've already had 8 times or flat out doesn't fit the theme"... But they should at least be available to everybody.
  • Eh, I would like them to "spice it up a bit" in terms of spotlight songs (particularly not always including a rb4/rivals song if it's one we've already had 8 times or flat out doesn't fit the theme"... But they should at least be available to everybody.

    That’s a start but sadly, probably asking too much.

  • I wish I could earn LP while doing Harmonies.
  • I am not a superstar (just "pretty good" at bass and vocals) and the WRDN Crew is mostly deadweight, for now*, but my LP super-power is that I am old + a pack rat. I bought lots of DLC + all of the exports, so there are almost always some challenge songs that have only a few plays on them, giving me a legit chance at getting 5k or even 10k LP on my own. Will that get me to Bloodstone? No, for that I would have to git gud and / or hit moar notes, and that's where being old (and having been born with much better slow-twitch (endurance) than fast-twitch (sprinting) muscles) hurts me.










    *maybe @Witticus will start playing again when he finishes moving + sets up his instruments, or maybe he'll make me crew leader so I can kick out the other people that haven't played in a year, or maybe @Lawdog1521 or @SuperTigerMario will start playing again
  • gervdoggervdog Opening Act
    Gotta disagree with the OP. LP is the only way I contribute. I rarely own all 3 spotlight songs, and I'm not buying them if I don't like them. My XP doesn't seem to be very high for each song. I'm not sure why but I think it has something to do with playing with others (which I don't)
  • If you are an excellent player, you will succeed regardless of the variations in the algorithms. Not everyone will be an excellent player... and I include myself in that category. Bloodstone is not a participation trophy, and I have never reached it. Still trying though!

    I thought LP (and the subsequent refinement of the LP calculation) added an interesting new twist on the game.

    Rock on!
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