who is/was better chuck berry or elvis

leftover_crackleftover_crack Road Warrior
edited March 2008 in History of Rock
i say chuck berry cause he was more influential

Comments

  • Rockbandfan23467Rockbandfan23467 Headliner
    edited March 2008
    They both influenced the same people.


    Also, This was the very first of the Battle of The Bands, and Chuck Berry Won.
  • leftover_crackleftover_crack Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    Rockbandfan23467;414904 said:
    They both influenced the same people.


    Also, This was the very first of the Battle of The Bands, and Chuck Berry Won.
    they didnt influence the same people

    most punk bands like the sex pistols and the clash were influenced by chuck berry while elvis influenced just about no one

    and of course chuck berry influenced the beatles and the rolling stones
  • NaLedge87NaLedge87 Unsigned
    edited March 2008
    I have to say Chuck because even though Elvis made great music he couldn't actually play the guitar for ****.
  • DHarris75DHarris75 Unsigned
    edited March 2008
    I completely disagree.

    Okay - Elvis couldn't play guitar - but Elvis had voice control that Chuck could only dream about. So they were both great at what they did.

    But I think Elvis had more impact on music. If you look at his complete body of work - from his "That's alright Momma" to his later, more meaningful music" - you'll see a diverse discography that stands the test of time. If you LISTEN to him (and not just his cliche songs like Hound Dog) - but his American Trilogy, In the Ghetto, or If I Can Dream - those songs show his talent.

    He had soo many number 1 hits and influenced so many artists...to me - he'll always be the King of Rock N Roll. Maybe artists of today don't look back on him and use his influence - but the bands/artists they look up to did.

    Now, you can argue apples and oranges. Chuck had a great influence on guitarists and you can hear it across generations. But Elvis shaped Rock N Roll across the world.
  • AxlVanHagarAxlVanHagar Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    I really had to think about this one. Tough choice to make. Ultimately I went with Elvis. I think time has kind of forgotten about Chuck while Elvis still remains wildly popular and gains new fans. I'm sure CHuck gains new fans too not as many as Elvis.

    I also agree that Elvis' body of work has held up better as he transcended genre's. He did rock, r&b, blues, gospel. He did it all well. That and I think he is the original "frontman" in a rock format. He set the standard for everyone to follow.

    Wish I could have seen him live. I did see Chuck Berry once, that was cool. He was a dick tho. Every other artist that played that day had no problem with pictures being taken but Chuck did. Great show however. Seeing Chuck Berry playing Johnny B. Goode while doing his duck walk is priceless!
  • Jhail83Jhail83 Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    leftover_crack;414855 said:
    i say chuck berry cause he was more influential
    I don't really have an opinion on who is better, but I always thought the "This band/artist is better then another band/artist because they were more influential" argument was kind of lame. I don't listen to music and think "well this is great music, but it's even better because it influenced That one band...etc."

    There is a difference between arguing "better" music and more influential music. It's two different things, where the first is subjective, and the second isn't.
  • Rockbandfan23467Rockbandfan23467 Headliner
    edited March 2008
    leftover_crack;414855 said:
    i say chuck berry cause he was more influential
    No, actually Elvis was more influencial. He influenced any different artists, which were some of the same as the ones Chuck did. Elvis was also one of the greatest singers in Rock and Roll History. He also, like Axl (Who I wish was my Dad) said, could stand the test of time.
  • AxlVanHagarAxlVanHagar Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    Rockbandfan23467;425921 said:
    No, actually Elvis was more influencial. He influenced any different artists, which were some of the same as the ones Chuck did. Elvis was also one of the greatest singers in Rock and Roll History. He also, like Axl (Who I wish was my Dad) said, could stand the test of time.

    :eek: Thanks.. I think. ;)
  • PennsylvanianPennsylvanian Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Honestly, I've got little respect for Elvis. He was a good singer and a good showman, but he was also a plagiarist and treated anyone under him like trash, so much so that his black backup singers walked off stage when he said their breath smelled like catfish. Yeah, rock and roll spread by him, but I have little respect for him as an artist. Granted Berry wasn't much better, but at least he could write a larger chunk of his library, and had talent as a guitarist. I hate to play ironic hipster revisionist, and I realize Elvis's contributions, but I think history has been a little TOO kind to him. What if I started getting popular by playing songs written by dive punk bands, only switching a few things around to appeal to common people, then call myself the king of punk when I get popular? It just bugs me.
  • fighting69thfighting69th Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Pennsylvanian;426482 said:
    Honestly, I've got little respect for Elvis. He was a good singer and a good showman, but he was also a plagiarist and treated anyone under him like trash, so much so that his black backup singers walked off stage when he said their breath smelled like catfish. Yeah, rock and roll spread by him, but I have little respect for him as an artist. Granted Berry wasn't much better, but at least he could write a larger chunk of his library, and had talent as a guitarist. I hate to play ironic hipster revisionist, and I realize Elvis's contributions, but I think history has been a little TOO kind to him. What if I started getting popular by playing songs written by dive punk bands, only switching a few things around to appeal to common people, then call myself the king of punk when I get popular? It just bugs me.
    Most singers didn't write their own songs back then and how do you figure he treated everyone like trash? The Sweet Inspirations were with him for his entire return to touring, almost 10 years. If buying everyone Cadillacs and having them live in Graceland/Vegas take them across the country on a private jet is getting treated bad, then sign me up!

    As far as influence, Elvis was the King for that reason alone. Mostly because he was white IMHO. Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Ike Turner would have been as influential as Elvis but look at the way he was marketed initially but Sam Phillips at Sun Records....A man singing like he was black. PLUS, this is more due to his greedy manager, his marketing paved the way for all future musicians/bands. Still going strong today.

    I know Elvis was no saint, but his voice is one of the best ever hands down.

    Not too many people get in to the R&R, Country and Gospel Hall of Fame by NOT being inspirational and influential.

    This one goes to the King....thankyouverymuch
  • PennsylvanianPennsylvanian Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    fighting69th;427690 said:
    Most singers didn't write their own songs back then and how do you figure he treated everyone like trash? The Sweet Inspirations were with him for his entire return to touring, almost 10 years. If buying everyone Cadillacs and having them live in Graceland/Vegas take them across the country on a private jet is getting treated bad, then sign me up!

    As far as influence, Elvis was the King for that reason alone. Mostly because he was white IMHO. Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Ike Turner would have been as influential as Elvis but look at the way he was marketed initially but Sam Phillips at Sun Records....A man singing like he was black. PLUS, this is more due to his greedy manager, his marketing paved the way for all future musicians/bands. Still going strong today.

    I know Elvis was no saint, but his voice is one of the best ever hands down.

    Not too many people get in to the R&R, Country and Gospel Hall of Fame by NOT being inspirational and influential.

    This one goes to the King....thankyouverymuch
    I just have no real tolerance for plagiarists. I understand getting help writing a song, as the vast majority of songs are written with help. I even understand being influenced by a piece or artist. But if you steal a song and get famous off of that, you are not an artist. You are a performer and in my eyes a criminal. The fact that he stole and accepted the title of king goes even further. Granted, rock may be very different today without him. I respect him for spreading it, respect for his talents, but almost no respect for him as an artist.
  • AxlVanHagarAxlVanHagar Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    Pennsylavanian raises some interesting points though I disagree that Elvis was a plagerist. It's not like he was taking peoples songs and sticking his name on them as writer the way Zepplin did. The only thing he "stole" was the style of black performers of the 40's. And even that seems to be open to some debate. From wiki...

    When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, and most white disc-jockeys wouldn't play his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys didn't want anything to do with a record made by a white man.[72] To some, Presley had undoubtedly "stolen" or at least "derived his style from the Negro rhythm-and-blues performers of the late 1940s."[73] Some black entertainers, notably Jackie Wilson, countered, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."[74]

    Regardless I do agree that Elvis wasn't much of an artist as he lacked a lot of musical ability and didn't do much if any in the song writing dept. I've always considered him more of a performer/showman. He had the looks and the voice with the charisma. He had the intangible "it" factor that every star needs but so few have.
  • fighting69thfighting69th Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    He did play piano, he DID play guitar though not great or even good but he does strum a few chords during the '68 Comeback Special. Even out of his prime and damn near dead, he sounded pretty good live.



  • PennsylvanianPennsylvanian Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    AxlVanHagar;428947 said:
    Pennsylavanian raises some interesting points though I disagree that Elvis was a plagerist. It's not like he was taking peoples songs and sticking his name on them as writer the way Zepplin did. The only thing he "stole" was the style of black performers of the 40's. And even that seems to be open to some debate. From wiki...

    When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, and most white disc-jockeys wouldn't play his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys didn't want anything to do with a record made by a white man.[72] To some, Presley had undoubtedly "stolen" or at least "derived his style from the Negro rhythm-and-blues performers of the late 1940s."[73] Some black entertainers, notably Jackie Wilson, countered, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."[74]

    Regardless I do agree that Elvis wasn't much of an artist as he lacked a lot of musical ability and didn't do much if any in the song writing dept. I've always considered him more of a performer/showman. He had the looks and the voice with the charisma. He had the intangible "it" factor that every star needs but so few have.
    It's basically a given that many white performers of the time stole at least one song (lyrics or otherwise) from black performers as it was easy to get popular in such a small, yet budding genre that white people were barely getting into. While there is no real proof that he did steal anything by his own motive or volition, it's almost guaranteed that he did because it was common practice for record labels to encourage such things. Ignorance of it all doesn't excuse anyone, either.
  • Rockbandfan23467Rockbandfan23467 Headliner
    edited March 2008
    Elvis grew up in the same area as many of the old bluesmen. He was esentially a very poor black kid.


    Did you knmow that Elvis was born blond?
  • fighting69thfighting69th Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Rockbandfan23467;430416 said:
    Elvis grew up in the same area as many of the old bluesmen. He was esentially a very poor black kid.


    Did you knmow that Elvis was born blond?
    Yeah it kills me when the dudes I work with say that Elvis hated black people. That was so far from the truth.
  • OldFogeyOldFogey Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    Pennsylvanian;430107 said:
    It's basically a given that many white performers of the time stole at least one song (lyrics or otherwise) from black performers as it was easy to get popular in such a small, yet budding genre that white people were barely getting into. While there is no real proof that he did steal anything by his own motive or volition, it's almost guaranteed that he did because it was common practice for record labels to encourage such things. Ignorance of it all doesn't excuse anyone, either.
    Well the other side of the coin is -- there's a lot of speculation that Chuck actually got his signature riffs from the keyboard player whose band he joined. One clue -- so many of them were in the key of C, which is a piano player's key, not a guitarists (E and A are the big guitar keys). And they are kind of pianistic.
  • AxlVanHagarAxlVanHagar Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    OldFogey;430734 said:
    Well the other side of the coin is -- there's a lot of speculation that Chuck actually got his signature riffs from the keyboard player whose band he joined. One clue -- so many of them were in the key of C, which is a piano player's key, not a guitarists (E and A are the big guitar keys). And they are kind of pianistic.

    I hadn't heard that Fogey but that does prove to be an interesting tid bit of trivia. Makes one wonder...
  • Rockbandfan23467Rockbandfan23467 Headliner
    edited March 2008
    Pensylvaininan, I'd love to hear your take on Led Zeppelin....
  • OldFogeyOldFogey Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    AxlVanHagar;430903 said:
    I hadn't heard that Fogey but that does prove to be an interesting tid bit of trivia. Makes one wonder...
    Guy's name was Johnnie Johnson and he actually made it into the rock hall of fame as a sideman. http://www.rockhall.com/inductee/johnnie-johnson/ No mention, there, tho' of the controversy.

    Johnson actually sued Chuck, but the case was thrown out because too much time had passed -- some good reason to think there was some merit to the charge.

    http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12055406

    Anyway, Chuck is kind of the the Ty Cobb of classic rockers, so if we're talking about discounting someone because he's an a-hole, then Chuck is probably exhibit number 1.
  • PennsylvanianPennsylvanian Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Rockbandfan23467;430930 said:
    Pensylvaininan, I'd love to hear your take on Led Zeppelin....
    Yeah. Just, no. I'm done with this topic. I took it to a depressing place.
  • fighting69thfighting69th Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Pennsylvanian;432335 said:
    Yeah. Just, no. I'm done with this topic. I took it to a depressing place.
    Not at all, I think you started us on a interesting discussion. You got me Axl and Fogey started what more could a topic need? lol.

    Drugged out E






    McFly



  • DHarris75DHarris75 Unsigned
    edited March 2008
    Everyone always wants to remember Elvis late in his career while he was tied to those crap Vegas contracts and on uppers and downers, or the movie Elvis.

    What my parents brought me up on was the rocker Elvis - early on in his career...even during the 68 Comeback Special.

    What everyone forgets - Elvis had a lifetime contract w/ the Col and that man was as greedy as they come. If it wasn't for the Col, Elvis wouldn't have done all those redundant campy movies. He wanted to be a serious actor and I believe he could have been as big as James Dean on screen. He was cast for the movie "A Star is Born" - but the Col didn't like Elvis sharing the billboard with Streisand. Too bad - he would have been much better than Kristofferson. Some of his movies, you can see some talent coming through (King Creole & Love Me Tender).

    The Col was also the reason Elvis got tied to those Vegas shows. I think w/ a manager who was actually looking out for Elvis' best interest, Elvis could have been even bigger. He went 10 years without a public show because of those campy movies.

    But looking at just talent - I believe he had one of the, if not the best voice control I've heard. His voice is magic - his performances were awesome. My parents brought me up on "their" music - 50s-70s and I love it. Out of all of it, Elvis is my favorite (with The Beatles coming in a close second).

    If someone actually were to look at Elvis' lifetime of work and not just the Vegas show Elvis or the movie Elvis - you'll find a talented singer/performer torn between his loyalty to a greedy manager, his belief in keeping his word, and his art.
  • AxlVanHagarAxlVanHagar Road Warrior
    edited March 2008
    fighting69th;432814 said:
    Not at all, I think you started us on a interesting discussion. You got me Axl and Fogey started what more could a topic need? lol.

    LOL! Very true, this has turned into an awesome discussion with varying viewpoints, interesting info etc. And everyone has remained civil with no name calling and respect for what others are saying. Why would you say you took it to a depressing place Pennsylvanian? It was Fogey wasn't it? Damn you Fogey! lol j/k But seriously I thought this was a great thread.
  • Poop ShovelPoop Shovel Opening Act
    edited March 2008
    Pennsylvanian;426482 said:
    Honestly, I've got little respect for Elvis. He was a good singer and a good showman, but he was also a plagiarist and treated anyone under him like trash, so much so that his black backup singers walked off stage when he said their breath smelled like catfish. Yeah, rock and roll spread by him, but I have little respect for him as an artist. Granted Berry wasn't much better, but at least he could write a larger chunk of his library, and had talent as a guitarist. I hate to play ironic hipster revisionist, and I realize Elvis's contributions, but I think history has been a little TOO kind to him. What if I started getting popular by playing songs written by dive punk bands, only switching a few things around to appeal to common people, then call myself the king of punk when I get popular? It just bugs me.
    Treated everyone under him like trash?? Sounds like EVERY Rock and Roll star in history. You hear so many stories of Rock and Roll people treating people like trash everyday since they think the world revolves around them.....this is nothing new. Can't hold that against Elvis.


    I think this question is way to vague. How is one better ? The question should be specific. Which is the better singer? Which is the better quitarist? Which was more influential? Which was the better songwriter?

    Which is better is just to broad of a question.
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