Modern vs Classic: Rock Band DLC

xxpigxxxxpigxx Road Warrior
edited April 2008 in Rock Band
**Modern in this topic is ~1995-Present(2008)**

Here is my argument(s)

1.) The DLC ratio of Classic Rock vs Modern Rock is about 3:1

-You can read it here or on may other forums. You can even tell by using the unofficial DLC charts. The people want Modern Rock more than Classic Rock. Classic Rock is good. I enjoy listening to it, and playing it. Do not try and argue that point. I have downloaded plenty of Classic Rock, and I am extremely satisfied with it.
-You will argue that the song selection is just about equal for both eras.


That brings me to my next argument

2.) The song selection is about equal in quantity, but not in quality

-The numbers might be equal, but the two eras are not getting the same treatment. We are getting numerous songs that people know and enjoy from the Classic Rock side. But we get a smattering of Modern Rock songs that are nowhere near the popularity of the Classic Rock songs


Lets take a look, shall we?



While Classic Rock is getting Lynard Skynard, The Police, Boston, the Grateful Dead, Rush, and Black Sabbath. The 80's have Foreigner, Judas Priest, Metallica, Rush, and The Police. Modern Rock is Getting FreezePop, Jon Coulton, Count Zero, Bang Camaro, and the Mother Hips, etc.

Sure, there have been modern bands for DLC. What no one takes into account is that the Classic Rock bunch is getting alot of music that they know and can sing/play along to . . . songs they heard, and still hear on the radio and were/are mainstream. Meanwhile, the Modern Rock bunch is getting Indie/Garage/non-mainstream bands.

When you combine the 3:1 ratio with the fact that most of the modern songs that we have been getting getting come nowhere close to the quality of the classic songs . . . it does not make sense.

Comments

  • Samuel346Samuel346 Headliner
    edited April 2008
    You are absolutely right my friend.
  • mrpoopsymrpoopsy Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
  • nasty89nasty89 Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    Thumbs down for mainstream music nowadays, it sucks, I couldn't be more blunt.
  • Samuel346Samuel346 Headliner
    edited April 2008
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
    I knew that crappy ass comment was coming from somewhere.
  • patmac0014patmac0014 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
    I wouldn't necessarily agree that all modern rock sucks. I'd say the attitude is not that modern rock sucks, but perhaps they're hedging their bets on the stuff people, of all ages, have heard, at least on a periphial basis.

    In other words, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
  • an1m051tyan1m051ty Rising Star
    edited April 2008
    Yea budday-
    I agree completely I've said such on a few other threads. Whenever someone asks for more modern music, they are always assaulted with the whole - 'but there is" argument, where they break the music down by decades only and say - see, there's only three more classic than modern. But when people ask for modern rock they are certainly not asking for Mother Hips, Freezepop, etc. Smashing Pumpkins I'll agree with. I don't think thats old enough to not be modern.

    But when people use the words mainstream modern together, opponents will say that all current music sucks.
    EDIT:mrpoopsy just made my point as I was typing my response.
    This isn't always the case, and it still should be represented.
  • Rorschach1976Rorschach1976 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Yeah you make a good point. And thank you very much for not just making another "Modern Rock sucks LOLZ" thread.

    I wonder if there is an issue with licensing of newer songs? Perhaps modern bands are not as willing to sell the rights to their songs for fear of selling out? I don't know.. this is pure speculation.

    There are some good ones though. Don't sell the likes of Soundgarden, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, RHCP, and The Pixies short, my friend!
  • Rorschach1976Rorschach1976 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
    I should've known that in the time it took to write my post someone would make this thread deteriorate.
  • ZortheConquerorZortheConqueror Rising Star
    edited April 2008
    I agree with you in a sense, but I also disagree with you in a sense.

    While I understand what you're saying, there hasn't been a whole lot of mainstream, on the radio, music that has really been that good since the early 1980s. I would argue that the majority of good modern music (its good that you clarified a definition by the way) is, in fact, the indie/non-mainstream bands (though not necessarily the garage demographic). There aren't particularly many bands played on the radio these days that I'd be like "Oh yeah, definite must have".

    I think I would like to add the aviso that if they're going to keep releasing these "indie" bands then maybe they should move away from the type that are already on the disc.
  • Samuel346Samuel346 Headliner
    edited April 2008
    an1m051ty;560640 said:

    But when people use the words mainstream modern together, opponents will say that all current music sucks.
    Of course they will!

    It's this concept, this idea, that because it's new it sucks. Moreover, it's the concept that people think THEIR GENERATION OF MUSIC is the best. THEIR GENERATION is the best at everything they have done. Their parents said the same **** about Rock music when it first came out, you would think they would learn from the past, they don't.
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
    By the way, I would just like to add that the only thing that makes something classic is a 25 year period of time has passed. WOW. Big deal.
  • whofanwhofan Headliner
    edited April 2008
    What no-one seems to realize is that songs are being picked based upon their suitability for the game. While you may point to hundreds of songs and artists from the modern eras that MAY be good for the game, you have to realize that they may be unsuitable for the game for several reasons (money, licencing complications, boring as hell, etc).

    Besides, your dichotomy is very general and, I believe, deliberately chosen to scew the numbers to your side. Classic Rock and Metal are not one and the same. In my last breakdown of the songs I have so far (everything except Metallica, QOTSA, Thrash, and 2 NiN tracks) it broke down as approximately 4 from the 60's, 43 from the 70's, 23 from the 80's, 24 from the 90's, and 34 from the 00's.

    While the 70's definitely has a clear majority, I would argue that's because that is when music was at it's most creative and most exciting. Do I like stuff from the 90's-00's, most certainly do, but it's nowhere near as exciting or innovating as the stuff from the 70's.

    Your idea of "Classic" is scewed for another reason, in that it covers 3 1/2 Decades, where "Modern" covers only 1 1/2. Of course there's going to be more songs from the "Classic" decades because it's a whole two decades longer.

    If you were to do this properly and assign 2 1/2 decades to each (1960-1985 (Classic) and 1986-2008 (Modern)) you would find that the numbers would even out a little more.

    I say, you may have a bit of a valid point in that some of the bigger names from the "Modern" era are still missing (probably for valid reasons, not because they're being purposely overlooked), but I do not believe that your arguements hold any water seeing how badly you've scewed the numbers to try to prove a point.
  • Highlandlassie1Highlandlassie1 Road Warrior
    edited April 2008
    Classic rock has been around 4 times longer than modern rock, therefore more people can relate to the songs because they have heard them sometime in their lives, so more dlc is sold= more $ for the developers.

    Makes sense to me.
  • JoshRedwineJoshRedwine Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.

    That is absolutely correct there is not a new rock band in the modern rock section that I could give a crap about. I am not trying to get into an argument I am just saying that Harmonix can't get popular new rock to please everyone so they probably go ok this song or album sold so and so million copies to this day. hmmm maybe that would be a good song to put in rock band beings how it sold so many copies. Stop complaining that Harmonix doesnt put any "new rock" if thats what you want to call it in rock band, they have given us enough already with this awesome game. Plus Harmonix promised to deliver new DLC each week and they have so maybe one of these days you'll get your new rock just chillax man.:cool:
  • patmac0014patmac0014 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Double post. Nothing to see here
  • tflash9tflash9 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Highlandlassie1;560715 said:
    Classic rock has been around 4 times longer than modern rock, therefore more people can relate to the songs because they have heard them sometime in their lives, so more dlc is sold= more $ for the developers.

    Makes sense to me.

    What he said.
  • rifteroftimerifteroftime Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    What year are you using for your ratio as the divider for classics:modern? Just curious because if it was say, 1990, then there were 12+ more years worth of music to choose from for classic rock over modern.
  • FleshwoundFleshwound Rising Star
    edited April 2008
    mrpoopsy;560622 said:
    Thats because most modern rock sucks and classic rock is just that, classic.
    Well said my friend.
  • JoshRedwineJoshRedwine Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    whofan;560700 said:
    What no-one seems to realize is that songs are being picked based upon their suitability for the game. While you may point to hundreds of songs and artists from the modern eras that MAY be good for the game, you have to realize that they may be unsuitable for the game for several reasons (money, licencing complications, boring as hell, etc).

    Besides, your dichotomy is very general and, I believe, deliberately chosen to scew the numbers to your side. Classic Rock and Metal are not one and the same. In my last breakdown of the songs I have so far (everything except Metallica, QOTSA, Thrash, and 2 NiN tracks) it broke down as approximately 4 from the 60's, 43 from the 70's, 23 from the 80's, 24 from the 90's, and 34 from the 00's.

    While the 70's definitely has a clear majority, I would argue that's because that is when music was at it's most creative and most exciting. Do I like stuff from the 90's-00's, most certainly do, but it's nowhere near as exciting or innovating as the stuff from the 70's.

    Your idea of "Classic" is scewed for another reason, in that it covers 3 1/2 Decades, where "Modern" covers only 1 1/2. Of course there's going to be more songs from the "Classic" decades because it's a whole two decades longer.

    If you were to do this properly and assign 2 1/2 decades to each (1960-1985 (Classic) and 1986-2008 (Modern)) you would find that the numbers would even out a little more.

    I say, you may have a bit of a valid point in that some of the bigger names from the "Modern" era are still missing (probably for valid reasons, not because they're being purposely overlooked), but I do not believe that your arguements hold any water seeing how badly you've scewed the numbers to try to prove a point.
    thats what I was trying to say in above statement. Well worded man, very well worded:)
  • blipp558blipp558 Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    There are some great mainstream bands i'd like to hear from the 90's -00's

    Green Day
    Live
    More Foo Fighters
    Rage Against the Machine
    Lenny Kravitz
    Primus
    The Offspring
    Korn
    U2 (More pop but would still be cool)


    -Just to name a few

    In 15 years won't these artists be "classic"...Will they still suck?
  • HyeJinx1984HyeJinx1984 Road Warrior
    edited April 2008
    I agree that the modern rock in the game is not up to par. Say what you want about modern rock sucking, but most of the "modern" songs in the game are ones no one knows the words to. I may not be their biggest fan, but if you put Linkin Park or bands like that in the game, at least the singers at my RB parties will now the words/beat... right now people just kind of talk them through because they don't know the words to Shockwave or Rock Rebellion.

    That, however, is not me saying I WANT more modern music... Classic Rock and Metal all the way for me (with SOME Punk)! But if you are going to put modern music, it should be things people know.
  • KrakenhedsKrakenheds Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Lets not forget that RB is a party game. People want to play stuff they know, they don't want music lessons from people they don't know (HMX staff). Luckily for me, I'm old, so I grew up with and loved JP, Boston, GD, and many of the classics we have been getting. But I'm also a fan of alot of the songs I hear on the radio today and think they would be a blast to play. Numbers don't lie, and some of the most downloaded songs are Wonderwall, All the Small Things, The Kill, and the other songs that actually get played on the radio today. People want to play songs they know and don't really care about what Tier there going to be in, so saying that HMX should keep putting unknown/garage bands in the game is just flat out wrong if they have any interest in making money.
  • blipp558blipp558 Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    blipp558;560784 said:
    There are some great mainstream bands i'd like to hear from the 90's -00's

    Green Day
    Live
    More Foo Fighters
    Rage Against the Machine
    Lenny Kravitz
    Primus
    The Offspring
    Korn
    U2 (More pop but would still be cool)


    -Just to name a few

    In 15 years won't these artists be "classic"...Will they still suck?
    I love the classics too.... We should all be careful of the definition of classic. There are plenty of songs from the classic era that are just as bad if not worse then today's music.
  • Rock_StarmanRock_Starman Headliner
    edited April 2008
    3:1 ratio is BS. Last I checked (wich was a while ago) there was ONE more song from 60's,70's and 80's than 90's and 00's and that's 3 decades compared to 2. There's almost nothing from the 60's and the 80's probably just caught up this week.

    Far as quality,well that's obvious,there's not exactly a whole lot of quality anymore. It's more about image than music/talent.

    Here's the top 20 right now:

    Billboard Top 20 Singles, 04.25-05.01

    1. Lil Wayne "Lollipop"
    2. Leona Lewis "Bleeding Love"
    3. Jordin Sparks "No Air"
    4. Usher "Love In This Club"
    5. Mariah Carey "Touch My Body"
    6. Madonna "4 Minutes"
    7. Ray J "Sexy Can I"
    8. Sara Bareilles "Love Song"
    9. Chris Brown "With You"
    10. Miley Cyrus "See You Again"
    11. Flo Rida "Low"
    12. John Mayer "Say"
    13. Rihanna "Don't Stop the Music"
    14. Danity Kane "Damaged"
    15. OneRepublic "Stop and Stare"
    16. Natasha Bedingfield "Pocketful Of Sunshine"
    17. Rick Ross (Hip-Hop) "The Boss"
    18. Timbaland "Apologize"
    19. Webbie "Independent"
    20. Buckcherry "Sorry"

    How many of those songs is going to work in RB? How many of those that would work in RB would actually sell? Perhaps this: http://wii.ign.com/articles/837/837767p1.html would be more to your liking? In the top 20,it's modern,must be good huh?

    Not much better in Canada either: http://www.muchmusic.com/tv/countdown/

    Want the Jonas Brothers instead of Black Sabbath?
  • notextnotext Unsigned
    edited April 2008
    It's probably worth remembering what people are asking for when they ask for 'modern' rock. Most of the arguments I've seen are arguing for more radio-popular singles to be added to Rock Band, as these are the popular tracks that people will know, with less emphasis on less well-known artists and on album tracks. But singles packs tend to come from multiple bands or at least multiple albums, which is guaranteed to complicate the process of acquiring them for DLC. Album packs, on the other hand, have their own complications in terms of putting them together but will result in a lot more tracks from a particular artist being released. You wouldn't say there's been an undue emphasis on Judas Priest for Rock Band, but because it was an album release there are now more Judas Priest songs on DLC than songs for any other band.

    It's probably fair to assume that most album packs will be from older albums, pre-95, not only because the modern rock fans are after the singles but because the modern music industry places more emphasis on the singles, where classic rock had more emphasis on the albums. So assuming one album a month and 3 packs for the other three weeks of the month, and assuming an album length of ten songs, that means that even if the single packs consist exclusively of modern rock then there will still be more classic rock being released, not due to any bias but simply due to the nature of the material. And assuming that all the three packs will be post-95 is a big assumption. As much as some would like to avoid it, a preponderance of classic rock is basically inevitable.

    (It's interesting the OP cites 1995 as the cut-off point, which would exclude Nirvana from being modern rock, which I thought was the band those arguing for modern rock were really keen on. Hmm!)
  • tflash9tflash9 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Krakenheds;560920 said:
    Lets not forget that RB is a party game. People want to play stuff they know, they don't want music lessons from people they don't know (HMX staff). Luckily for me, I'm old, so I grew up with and loved JP, Boston, GD, and many of the classics we have been getting. But I'm also a fan of alot of the songs I hear on the radio today and think they would be a blast to play. Numbers don't lie, and some of the most downloaded songs are Wonderwall, All the Small Things, The Kill, and the other songs that actually get played on the radio today. People want to play songs they know and don't really care about what Tier there going to be in, so saying that HMX should keep putting unknown/garage bands in the game is just flat out wrong if they have any interest in making money.
    Hot damn. I couldn't agree more.
  • sarjentsarjent Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    xxpigxx;560581 said:

    most of the modern songs that we have been getting getting come nowhere close to the quality of the classic songs
    I think you answered your own question.
  • stxbomber191stxbomber191 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
  • QuyreanQuyrean Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Rock_Starman;560949 said:
    Here's the top 20 right now:

    Billboard Top 20 Singles, 04.25-05.01

    1. Lil Wayne "Lollipop"
    2. Leona Lewis "Bleeding Love"
    3. Jordin Sparks "No Air"
    4. Usher "Love In This Club"
    5. Mariah Carey "Touch My Body"
    6. Madonna "4 Minutes"
    7. Ray J "Sexy Can I"
    8. Sara Bareilles "Love Song"
    9. Chris Brown "With You"
    10. Miley Cyrus "See You Again"
    11. Flo Rida "Low"
    12. John Mayer "Say"
    13. Rihanna "Don't Stop the Music"
    14. Danity Kane "Damaged"
    15. OneRepublic "Stop and Stare"
    16. Natasha Bedingfield "Pocketful Of Sunshine"
    17. Rick Ross (Hip-Hop) "The Boss"
    18. Timbaland "Apologize"
    19. Webbie "Independent"
    20. Buckcherry "Sorry"

    Want the Jonas Brothers instead of Black Sabbath?
    Yech, hmm the only band I have heard of from that list is Madonna (well and Usher just cause I watch the Boondocks).

    and Jonas Brothers made me LOL

    I listen to KLOS radio and they play most of the songs in the 'classic' dlc. So you say add "songs people hear on the radio", I say they ARE songs people hear on the radio!
  • tflash9tflash9 Opening Act
    edited April 2008
    Yech, hmm the only band I have heard of from that list is Madonna (well and Usher just cause I watch the Boondocks).

    and Jonas Brothers made me LOL

    I listen to KLOS radio and they play most of the songs in the 'classic' dlc. So you say add "songs people hear on the radio", I say they ARE songs people hear on the radio!
    Oh you hear "Cherry Bomb" on the radio?
  • xxpigxxxxpigxx Road Warrior
    edited April 2008
    I said ~1995 that is give or take a few years.

    And the person who listed the top 20 . . . try looking for ROCK.

    Here is a list for you. It is a few months old, but close enough

    Modern Rock Top 100


    Those are songs and/or bands that we want.

    Top 100 iTunes Rock Songs

    While not all suitable for RB, I counted only 5 songs that are in RB on the top 100 downloaded rock songs on iTunes.

    It is painfully obvious what people want.
This discussion has been closed.