Seth's midi Adapter (aka Use Electronic Drums to play Rock Band)

dagwaredagware Rising Star
edited December 2010 in Rock Band
I have been meaning to write this review for close to a week now, but I kept putting it off because I wanted to make sure my review did justice to the product, since I think the product is absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately that was causing writer's block, so I decided to go ahead and write the review, and quit trying to make it perfect. So, here it is.

Ever wish you could use a real electronic drum set with Rock Band?

Well, now you can, by using sethmeisterg's Rock Band EDRUM-USB Adapter. It's this simple:

[LIST=1]
[*]Attach the adapter to your electronic drum's brain (drum module) using a MIDI cable.
[*]Attach the adapter to your PS3 or PS3 using a USB cable.
[*]Play Rock Band.
[/LIST]

Here's some pictures.

The adapter has all the buttons you'd find on a regular controller, plus a couple of extra ones. It's small, measuring 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 1".

The adapter works by assigning various MIDI notes to each of the RB pads. So, for example, the default mode maps snares to the red pad, open and closed hi-hats to the yellow pad, etc. If you don't like the mappings, you can easily change them. The adapter has lots of ways to customize it, and I won't go into all of that here. But suffice it to say that it has probably everything you'll ever need, and if it doesn't, you can upgrade the flash memory easily if Seth sends you new firmware.

I have noticed no difference in controller lag using this adapter, versus my stock RB drums (SL model). It just plain works.

Bottom line: It works. Get it. (see contact information at the end of this post)

Here's some details:
  • PS3 and PS2 only. Why not XBOX 360? It's not for lack of trying, or some misguided fanboy love of one console over another. It turns out that the Rock Band controllers for the PS3 and PS2 use relatively open standards, and Seth was able to reverse engineer them. However, thanks to Microsoft, the controllers on the 360 use encrypted communications. Unfortunately this means that Seth has not been able to reverse engineer them. As of this writing, he has sent emails to Microsoft but unfortunately hasn't received a response. If you want to use electronic drums with other platforms, see the thread Rock Band with Electronic Drums (HOWTO) that deals with how you can build an interface between an electronic drum set and Rock Band.
  • Lovingly hand-made. Among other things, this means the labels are hand-written, and the buttons are a little odd-feeling. But it works well and most likely will hold up pretty well.
  • Nice manual. The manual is clear and well-written, and explains all the things you can change.
Contact Seth for pricing information.

On the Rock Band forums, he's sethmeisterg. You can PM him here.

Email: rbusbadapter at gmail dot com. I didn't want to type the email address exactly, just so spambots would have a harder time picking off the email address. The first part stands for "Rock Band USB Adapter" in case you couldn't figure it out.

Conclusion

If you have questions, go ahead and ask. I'll try to answer them as best as I can, and I'm sure Seth will chime in also.

Dan

Comments

  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    cleee;743398 said:
    Don't you think it would be easier for everyone if you just posted the price here? It seems silly to encourage hundreds of people to send private messages for this information.

    Why the big secret?
    It's just not my place to quote prices for someone else. It's not like he's a store or anything -- he's one person who thought it would be cool to make something like this.

    Let me give you an example: Let's say I quoted a specific price. What if Seth got a lot of orders and decided it took too much of his time to make one for that price. What could he do now? The logical thing would be to charge more, thus decreasing the number of people waiting, and making it more worth his while. But if I quoted a price, it would be more difficult for him to change prices.

    Look, I have no ulterior motive here. Seth did an *incredible* job IMO, and I just wanted to let other people know about it. It's up to you what to do with the information.

    Dan
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    creamcheese;743453 said:
    I've been waiting for someone to do this so I didn't have to figure it out myself (and probably burn my house down in the process)
    Ditto. :p

    Dan
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    Killbasa;743349 said:
    Midi to usb game controller adapter?

    Interesting idea. I would love to play on a real set of vDrums but I wonder... Could a box like this lead to cheating? Creating a perfect performance on a sequencer and hitting play?
    I thought about that also. But where's the fun in that? I know it takes all kinds, but if that gets you off (not you personally, but the cheater), then you've got bigger issues to deal with.
    I'd rather see a box tat takes the trigger outs directly from the pads, bypassing the sound module.
    Actually, when he first started working on this box, I asked him for just that. But then I realized I'd rather be able to hear the actual drum sounds. (I was right about this by the way -- very cool and it helps me understand what's really being played instead of just some notes to hit.)

    And yes, he could probably make one with "through" ports so you could still hook it up to a drum module, but I suspect it's a lot of work to process trigger signals, when you consider the possibility of crosstalk and the like, so I doubt it would be worth the effort. But you could ask him.

    Dan
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    Killbasa;743349 said:
    Something like this http://www.fullcompass.com/product/330326.html
    with it's data output translated for a gaming console.
    Sorry, I didn't even look at your link. I actually bought the Alesis Trigger I/O a few weeks ago. I intended on hooking my DIY mesh head drums to it, and sending the MIDI output to an external sound module I own, as well as Seth's adapter.

    But it turns out that the Trigger I/O was missing a couple of functions I needed to get the sounds just right, so I sent it back and bought a DM5 instead. The DM5 has all the settings I need, and I am *so* glad I bought it.

    It was actually because of this experience that I realized how much work it would be for Seth to make a trigger-type adapter. :eek:

    Dan
  • cleeecleee Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    It's just not my place to quote prices for someone else. It's not like he's a store or anything -- he's one person who thought it would be cool to make something like this.

    Let me give you an example: Let's say I quoted a specific price. What if Seth got a lot of orders and decided it took too much of his time to make one for that price. What could he do now? The logical thing would be to charge more, thus decreasing the number of people waiting, and making it more worth his while. But if I quoted a price, it would be more difficult for him to change prices.

    Look, I have no ulterior motive here. Seth did an *incredible* job IMO, and I just wanted to let other people know about it. It's up to you what to do with the information.
    Well, since it was a product review, I thought it was something that's out there for sale, not something that might be for sale at a price that depends on how many orders are received. I figured that since at least one was made already, the parts and labor time were established.

    I don't want to bother the guy with a PM inquiry. He'll probably get enough of those. If someone finds out the price, could you please post it here?
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    cleee;743552 said:
    I don't want to bother the guy with a PM inquiry. He'll probably get enough of those.
    Do you honestly think he would mind receiving a PM from you asking the price? Somehow, I doubt it. :cool:

    Whether you do or don't, it doesn't matter to me. You certainly weren't going to give *me* any money, so I don't care what you do. If you want one, PM him. If you don't, then don't. End of discussion.

    Dan
  • RockstarLeoRockstarLeo Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    Does this let you set a threshold for the triggers as well? i.e. only register a snare hit if the snare is hit at 20/127 or more?

    Also, I'm assuming it lets you assign any and all possible midi notes since different makers have different standards?

    I'd like to try and hook up my drummer's TD-20... that would kick some serious ass!
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    RockstarLeo;745762 said:
    Does this let you set a threshold for the triggers as well? i.e. only register a snare hit if the snare is hit at 20/127 or more?
    Yes, it has velocity threshold settings. I haven't touched it, though, because I've setup all that in my drum module.
    Also, I'm assuming it lets you assign any and all possible midi notes since different makers have different standards?
    Yes it does, although there's a memory limit, but I don't believe the limit will be an issue for anyone. If you want more details on the limit, you'll need to ask Seth, because I only kind of understand it. :rolleyes:
    I'd like to try and hook up my drummer's TD-20... that would kick some serious ass!
    Yes it would!

    Dan
  • sethmeistergsethmeisterg Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    Killbasa;743349 said:
    Midi to usb game controller adapter?

    Interesting idea. I would love to play on a real set of vDrums but I wonder... Could a box like this lead to cheating? Creating a perfect performance on a sequencer and hitting play?

    I'd rather see a box tat takes the trigger outs directly from the pads, bypassing the sound module.

    Something like this http://www.fullcompass.com/product/330326.html
    with it's data output translated for a gaming console.
    Sigh. I knew this would come up and I grappled with this for a long time (thinking about how I could defeat something like this, etc.), but in the end, it comes does to this: If there are scumbags who want to cheat, they will find a way. There are already documented ways of modding the kit with MSA-P, which could also be used for nefarious purposes. My purpose in creating this was to enhance the enjoyment of the game. Period.
  • sethmeistergsethmeisterg Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    cleee;743552 said:
    Well, since it was a product review, I thought it was something that's out there for sale, not something that might be for sale at a price that depends on how many orders are received. I figured that since at least one was made already, the parts and labor time were established.

    I don't want to bother the guy with a PM inquiry. He'll probably get enough of those. If someone finds out the price, could you please post it here?

    I understand the concerns you all have about about not posting pricing -- I'm listening. I've mainly not posted pricing because right now, it's fluctuating as I explore ways of cutting the time of assembly. Right now, from soup to nuts, it takes me a highly variable 7 hours to assemble each adapter (which I've been doing in my free time since I do have a real job). You're not bothering me by PMing me. I hope to be able to make pricing public in the near future.
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    sethmeisterg;747059 said:
    Sigh. I knew this would come up and I grappled with this for a long time (thinking about how I could defeat something like this, etc.), but in the end, it comes does to this: If there are scumbags who want to cheat, they will find a way. There are already documented ways of modding the kit with MSA-P, which could also be used for nefarious purposes. My purpose in creating this was to enhance the enjoyment of the game. Period.
    Another thought on this issue. If I were good enough to do a perfect performance of a song (and I am, at least for most of the 19 songs I've gold starred), I'd never consider recording it and then playing it back during head-to-head competition. What would be the fun in that? I'd rather *really* kick someone's ass then pretend to. And I certainly wouldn't post it online for someone else with lesser talent to use -- I worked darn hard to get good enough to GS a song. So I'm not sure how likely cheating would be.

    Then again, I'm 51 and come from a different generation where cheating was never considered acceptable by the masses. From what I read these days, things have change a lot since I was a kid. :rolleyes: :p

    Dan
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    sethmeisterg;747068 said:
    I understand the concerns you all about about not posting pricing -- I'm listening. I've mainly not posted pricing because right now, it's fluctuating as I explore ways of cutting the time of assembly. Right now, from soup to nuts, it takes me a highly variable 7 hours to assemble each adapter. You're not bothering me by PMing me. I hope to be able to make pricing public in the near future.
    OK, now I feel good about not posting the price. :p Thanks.

    Dan
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    Posted new pics of my drums, with the Alesis cymbals and DM5, and sethmeisgerg's controller.

    And yes, I am spamming all the old threads. Get over it. :p

    Dan
  • sethmeistergsethmeisterg Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    dagware;760271 said:
    Posted new pics of my drums, with the Alesis cymbals and DM5, and sethmeisgerg's controller.

    And yes, I am spamming all the old threads. Get over it. :p

    Dan
    They look GREAT! :)
  • mpkelley20mpkelley20 Unsigned
    edited June 2008
    I originally posted this over in the AVS forums. Thought I would post it here as well.

    I received my Rock Band Midi/USB adaptor this past Friday so I wanted to post a review of it so others that have real electronic drums can decide if they want to go this route rather than an aftermarket kit like the Goodwood Mesh Kit. Please keep in mind that this only works with the PS2/PS3 version right now. I don't know if there are any plans to create one of these for the X-Box.

    Ordering:
    I contacted the gentleman, Seth, who designed the adaptor and asked a few questions. I was quickly given answers and was informed that there were several people ahead of me on the list if I decided to purchase it. You can get bumped up in priority right now for an extra cost. I decided to do this as my stock RB kit is basically destroyed and out of warranty. I had the adaptor 3 days after ordering as it was shipped priority mail.

    Cost:
    Because he is currently working on ways to improve his turnaround time, I do not want to post the price on his behalf because it will most likely be less that what he is selling it for right now. What I can say is that the cost is less than the Goodwood Mesh kit but comparable to the other aftermarket kits that just came out. Since I don't know exactly what Seth is doing to improve his design time, I don't want to speculate too much on what the final price would be. Just be prepared to spend a little dough if you want to transform the way this game is played on drums. But it's so worth it…more on that later.

    Hookup:
    The adaptor is pretty small and has a MIDI input on one side and a USB on the other. You need to have your own cables as the adaptor does not come with any. Since everyone has different needs, it make sense not to drive up the cost on his end by sending a size that is useless for some of us. For me, I need a 15 foot USB cable minimum in order to reach my drum set. The adaptor has a button layout on top that tries to replicate all of the necessary buttons you would use on a PS3 controller. It works great and I found no issues with it. I will try and post pictures of it later tonight as it is quite a nice design and functions well. Once I opened the package, I simply hooked up my MIDI cable to my drum set and the other end to my PS3 via USB and then turned the PS3 on. The adaptor immediately lit up so I knew it was getting power. Total setup time, 45 seconds.

    Game play:
    Once RB started up, I was able to use my drum set to control the selections just as I would if I used the stock RB drum set. Rather than try practice mode first, I decided to jump right into game play on one of my characters. In expert mode, I selected probably the easiest song in the game (I think I'm paranoid). Before the song started, I quickly tested all of the pads and noticed that they all work. The song started and I realized two things very quickly:

    1. Real drums are harder then the RB stock kit
    2. I suck at real drums

    I ended up with a 98% (my usual score is 100%) completion rate which is not bad considering now I was using two cymbals and a hi-hat along with the 4 pads on my drum kit. Any misses I had were solely due to my mistakes where I was confused as to which pad to hit. After this song I went into practice just to make sure I understood the default mapping. Here is the default

    Red Pad - Snare Drum
    Yellow pad - Hi-Hat or first tom
    Blue Pad - Ride cymbal or second tom
    Green pad - Crash cymbal or floor tom
    Bass - Obvious

    There is an alternate mode that you can easily switch to that swaps the red and yellow pads for songs like RTTH where the hi-hat is played on the red pad. I haven't tried this out yet. You can also customize the default settings if your E-drum setup is different. Seth sends an excellent detailed instruction booklet on how to change virtually anything on the adaptor so it should satisfy everyone's setup no matter how weird it is. For me, I have no need to change it as I am using a Roland kit which appears to be one of the primary test kits that he used when designing it.

    As you can see from the mapping above, you could easily just use the snare and 3 toms to play the game using the adaptor if you didn't want to use the cymbals. It would work just like the stock kit, but that is not why I bought this. Being able to use the ride or hi-hat completely changes this game. First, it makes it much harder because you have more items to strike and you have to be much quicker when you are hitting notes due to the cymbals/pads being further away from each other. Second, using this adaptor creates a more realistic environment to real drums. While the stock RB kit can teach you some basics and help with muscle memory and things, it is a "far cry" (shout out to Rush!) from the real thing. For someone like me that is learning the drums, being able to use my real kit in this game is the best thing ever.

    After a bit of playing, I did have to adjust my crossover setting on my drum module (Roland TD-3) and reduce the sensitivity on the pads but that only takes about a minute or so. This helped alleviate any crossover hits from vibration that may happen when pads are close together. I was getting a bit of it due to how hard I was playing. I had this happen a lot in playing DTXMania as well.

    Summary:
    If you have an electronic drum set or are thinking about getting one, you MUST get this adaptor. While there are some interesting aftermarket drum set coming out such as the GoodWood Mesh mods, there really shouldn't be any substitute for a real drum kit if you have one available to play. The adaptor works right out of the box, is fully customizable if needed, hooks up in less than a minute and is apparently firmware upgradeable (I just received an e-mail with the new firmware which adds additional features that I have not used yet). Plus, there is no need to destroy your stock kit like some of the other mods out there. So far, I have had no dropped notes (except for the ones I missed) and my drum set is just as responsive as a perfectly working RB stock kit. I will caution you that it may take some time to get used to the new setup. I ended up going into "Hard" and practices there for a bit so I could get used to it and I can now say that I was able to get my 100% in expert mode on "I think I'm Paranoid". A few more hours of practice and I'm sure I will be back in full expert mode in my normal career and will hopefully get through DFTR!!

    I will try and post some pics later today and possibly a video at some point as well.

    I will try and answer any additional questions if there are any.
  • jpicemanjpiceman Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    I'm on the waiting list for one also, and I have the same eletronic kit that you got. Its good to hear that for one it works and also can add features later. I can't wait until mine comes. There are a few songs that me and my cousin are waiting to do in world tour just cause it would be so much better.

    Good review, hope mine comes soon =)
  • mpkelley20mpkelley20 Unsigned
    edited June 2008
    It's definitely worth the wait. I did the priority option as my stock kit was basically unplayable so I was stuck with nothing. Hopefully Seth will be able to streamline his process so he can get more out the door quickly. I was actually getting bored with RB and found myself playing DTXMania on my computer and Roland kit more since I am really trying to learn how to play on a real set. Seth's adaptor have given RB a new life for me and I couldn't be more happy. Hopefully RB wil be around for a long time, or if RB2 ever does come out, the adaptor will be compatible.

    Enjoy it when you get it!
  • jpicemanjpiceman Opening Act
    edited June 2008
    I hope I will. I been thinking about going priority also, mostly cause I can't wait for nothing, lol. Plus my friend is going to buy my stock kit with the premium covers on it. His kit is dropping notes, and is a peice of junk. I got my pearl pedal modded to work with the stock set for now, and after playing that I just can't wait to jam on my drum kit with rockband.

    I'm banking on that this can be used for RB2. I'm sure people that bought the awesome goodwood drum kit hope that too.

    Acutally I think I talked myself into priority option as I was typing this. I blame you for that mpkelley!

    When I get mine we should duel, lol. Although I'm not great on drums.
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    mpkelley20;771632 said:
    1. Real drums are harder then the RB stock kit
    2. I suck at real drums
    lmao! Yes, I totally relate.

    The adapter does indeed work great, as you said. My only issues now are trying to figure out on each song what RB maps the blue to, etc. Sometimes it's Open HH, sometimes ride, toms, etc. Then my brain has to process the information quick enough to determine WHAT to hit when a blue comes up (for example).

    But it's a lot of fun. Except for the time when I hit the thumb of one hand with the stick from the other hand. Man, that smarts! :eek:

    Dan
  • mpkelley20mpkelley20 Unsigned
    edited June 2008
    jpiceman;771740 said:
    I hope I will. I been thinking about going priority also, mostly cause I can't wait for nothing, lol. Plus my friend is going to buy my stock kit with the premium covers on it. His kit is dropping notes, and is a peice of junk. I got my pearl pedal modded to work with the stock set for now, and after playing that I just can't wait to jam on my drum kit with rockband.

    I'm banking on that this can be used for RB2. I'm sure people that bought the awesome goodwood drum kit hope that too.

    Acutally I think I talked myself into priority option as I was typing this. I blame you for that mpkelley!

    When I get mine we should duel, lol. Although I'm not great on drums.
    Once you are up and running, look for me...I am either under golfer97 (yes I know...weak name!) or Go_Frak_Yourself. I've been using the latter recently as I've been trying to track my expert only score rather than a mix of expert and hard. I'll add you to my list next time I log in and keep an eye out for you.

    Oh, sorry about costing you more money......but it really is worth it! As far as Rock Band add ons/Mods.....I would have to give Seth the award for best product.

    I did OK on expert drums until DFTR and Foreplay. I'm hoping the using a real drumset will eventually get me past those songs!
  • mpkelley20mpkelley20 Unsigned
    edited June 2008
    dagware;771878 said:


    But it's a lot of fun. Except for the time when I hit the thumb of one hand with the stick from the other hand. Man, that smarts! :eek:

    Dan
    Yup.....I really need to be more careful when playing the hi-hat and snare. During some fills, I've slammed my fingers, dropped the sticks and completely missed the pads I'm aiming for! It really is much harder than using the stock drums but I'm having an absolute blast again!
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    mpkelley20;772487 said:
    Yup.....I really need to be more careful when playing the hi-hat and snare. During some fills, I've slammed my fingers, dropped the sticks and completely missed the pads I'm aiming for! It really is much harder than using the stock drums but I'm having an absolute blast again!
    One thing I'm considering is adding another crash to the left of my ride, right near my hi-hat. There's some songs where you have to go from crash to hi-hat really fast, and this would help. Of course, my brain could probably never handle this!

    Regarding hi-hats: Since my set is DIY, I just placed the hi-hat above and left of the snare, and a little higher. (Click the bottom link in my sig for a picture.) Do you (or anyone else) have any pictures of how most people set up their (real) hi-hats, so I can see if I need to reposition it? Thanks.

    Dan
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2008
    dagware;775245 said:
    Regarding hi-hats: Since my set is DIY, I just placed the hi-hat above and left of the snare, and a little higher. (Click the bottom link in my sig for a picture.) Do you (or anyone else) have any pictures of how most people set up their (real) hi-hats, so I can see if I need to reposition it? Thanks.
    Sure, on my Myspace page (and my band's) you can see a ton of pictures of me at my drums. Where you described it is correct for right-handed drummers.

    http://www.myspace.com/davidshek
    http://www.myspace.com/woundedsoulband

    http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/davidshek/david12-800.jpg
    http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/davidshek/wsdrums2.jpg
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    davidshek;775289 said:
    Sure, on my Myspace page (and my band's) you can see a ton of pictures of me at my drums. Where you described it is correct for right-handed drummers.
    Thanks. So when you're playing, does your right arm actually cross over your left hand (or arm), or is your right arm further away from your body? In other words, if you lift your left had straight up, would it hit your right arm?

    And how much higher is your right arm than your left?

    I hope this makes sense. Thanks.

    Dan
  • mpkelley20mpkelley20 Unsigned
    edited June 2008
    dagware;775245 said:
    One thing I'm considering is adding another crash to the left of my ride, right near my hi-hat. There's some songs where you have to go from crash to hi-hat really fast, and this would help. Of course, my brain could probably never handle this!

    Regarding hi-hats: Since my set is DIY, I just placed the hi-hat above and left of the snare, and a little higher. (Click the bottom link in my sig for a picture.) Do you (or anyone else) have any pictures of how most people set up their (real) hi-hats, so I can see if I need to reposition it? Thanks.

    Dan
    My original config of my Roland set had the crash on the left side and ride on the right. I found that it was easier for me to switch this around (very easy on an E-drum set!) so now my ride is on the same side as my hi-hat. I am thinking about a second crash as well but not until I get better as Roland add ons are rather expensive for an amateur like me!

    The position of your hi-hate seems to be consistent with what I use and what others have. David appears to be a pro so I would listen to him over me but it looks like we are in agreement!
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    mpkelley20;775947 said:
    David appears to be a pro so I would listen to him over me but it looks like we are in agreement!
    David is a god.

    Dan
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2008
    dagware;775503 said:
    Thanks. So when you're playing, does your right arm actually cross over your left hand (or arm), or is your right arm further away from your body? In other words, if you lift your left had straight up, would it hit your right arm?

    And how much higher is your right arm than your left?
    Well, it's hard to put it into words...here, watch this (just did a YT search for "basic rock beat" to find this vid):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ_X25MtP6k

    Because of my toms, my hi-hat is a little more to the left than that, so my arms are in slightly different positions than that guy, but that's pretty close. So no, if I lifted up my left hand, it would not hit my right arm, but my stick would.

    Notice how when his left stick comes up to hit the snare, the right stick actually goes up a little higher to give the left more room to rise.
    dagware;775969 said:
    David is a god.
    Lol thanks, but I'm just a guy...who loves to play drums :)
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    davidshek;776029 said:
    Well, it's hard to put it into words...here, watch this (just did a YT search for "basic rock beat" to find this vid):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ_X25MtP6k

    Because of my toms, my hi-hat is a little more to the left than that, so my arms are in slightly different positions than that guy, but that's pretty close. So no, if I lifted up my left hand, it would not hit my right arm, but my stick would.

    Notice how when his left stick comes up to hit the snare, the right stick actually goes up a little higher to give the left more room to rise.
    Perfect -- that's just what I needed. Thanks!
    Lol thanks, but I'm just a guy...who loves to play drums :)
    Have you never seen Ghost Busters? "When someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!" :p

    Dan
  • davidshekdavidshek Community Playtester
    edited June 2008
    dagware;776599 said:
    Have you never seen Ghost Busters? "When someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!" :p
    There is no David, only Zuuuuuul! :cool:
  • dagwaredagware Rising Star
    edited June 2008
    davidshek;777036 said:
    There is no David, only Zuuuuuul! :cool:
    Thought I smelled burnt dog around here!

    OK, enough of the digressing. Sorry.

    Dan
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