The Post-Hardcore Thread

GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
edited July 2011 in History of Rock
What is Post-Hardcore?

To understand the term post-hardcore, it really only takes a bit of digging, digging in a hole that is already dug, but in this land of holes which hole is the right one with the treasure? Gee, that sounds like a sexual innuendo or something doesn't it? Anyway, post-hardcore is pretty common of a word isn't it? You hear it on forums thrown left and right. But what is it, exactly?

Let's look on last.fm for what the users throw under the tag radio for it, then.
At the Drive-In
Alexisonfire
Bear vs. Shark
The Blood Brothers
The Fall of Troy
Fugazi
Glassjaw
Mewithoutyou
Protest the Hero
The clear and obvious thing is; people tag music too quickly on this website! But other than that if you take a listen to what people call post-hardcore you will notice Protest the Hero does not sound like Glassjaw or Fugazi or At the Drive-In. This is probably because the meaning behind the word was lost somewhere between the late 90s and the current timeline.

I blame kids and journalists.

But post-hardcore's true meaning is probably more along the lines of 'hardcore punk that pushes the boundaries and experiments, progresses.' or it was when emotive hardcore bands and experimental punk acts like the Minutemen, Flipper, Rites of Spring and others were coming out in the middle of the 1980s.

By the 1990s emotive hardcore really took off and spread itself furthur into being post-hardcore in itself. Take a listen to a Funeral Diner or Majority Rule record sometime and you'll get what I mean. Very dynamic. But the 90s were probably the most vital movement for post-hardcore in itself; with bands like Refused and ATDI coming out and taking the concept of post-hardcore before them and pushing it furthur. Electronic sampling and experimentation on a punk record is absurd, right? Tell that to Refused when they wrote The Shape of Punk to Come.

...and after that is where it started to get tricky. You know how amazing bands can inspire some awful ones who have no clue at all in terms of genre progression?

Yeah, it happened.

How else can you explain bands like Escape the Fate and Bring Me the Horizon and their label of post-hardcore? Yeah, a big slap in the face to post-hardcore musicians. However, some interesting ideas came out at the same time. The Fall of Troy and others certainty showed they had an idea what they were doing. They are the minority, however.

Movement VS Genre

Then there is the thought of is post-hardcore a genre or a movement? Some say the former, some say the latter, some say both. Personally, I say it's the latter; as a genre has a root sound to link bands together; while a movement has a concept & idea to link bands together, not particularly sound.

It's more of a movement now. Maybe in the eighties it was a genre, but that time has long since passed in my opinion.

Post-Hardcore encompasses many styles, here are some of the subgenres that apply in certain cases:

Experimental Punk (Nomeansno, etc.)
Emotive Hardcore (Funeral Diner, etc.)
Hard Rock (Helmet, etc.)
Noise Rock (The Jesus Lizard, etc.)

Musical Acts

Some bands include:

Alexisonfire
Ampere
At the Drive-In
Bear vs. Shark
Big Black
Black Eyes
The Blood Brothers
Circle Takes The Square
City of Caterpillar
Da

Comments

  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    afterstasis;1344026 said:
    does it say anything about my character if i love almost every band under the first three headings, but despise all but three under the fourth one? :)
    Depends on the bands you dislike. :mad:
  • Rev0lverRev0lver Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    Why would you classify The Dillinger Escape Plan or Protest The Hero as post-hardcore? DEP is a mathcore band, while PTH is more of a prog/math/thrashy metal band(unless you are judging by some of the vocals).
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited September 2008
    Gowienczyk;1344034 said:
    Depends on the bands you dislike. :mad:
    i dig refused, early DEP, and early hot water music...
    i can also deal with a handful of the blood brothers songs, but was really turned off by seeing them live.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    Rev0lver;1344044 said:
    Why would you classify The Dillinger Escape Plan or Protest The Hero as post-hardcore? DEP is a mathcore band, while PTH is more of a prog/math/thrashy metal band(unless you are judging by some of the vocals).
    Mathcore can be easily called a fake genre as a lot of mathcore fits post-hardcore perfectly.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    afterstasis;1344052 said:
    i dig refused, early DEP, and early hot water music...
    i can also deal with a handful of the blood brothers songs, but was really turned off by seeing them live.
    and I'm sure I listed some you are indifferent on due to never hearing.
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited September 2008
    Gowienczyk;1344068 said:
    and I'm sure I listed some you are indifferent on due to never hearing.

    yeah, i've never heard sleeping people, the 30 years war, or mara'akate.

    i will be looking them up, though.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    afterstasis;1344089 said:
    yeah, i've never heard sleeping people, the 30 years war, or mara'akate.

    i will be looking them up, though.
    I am quite uncertain you've heard Light the Fuse and Run, though!
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited September 2008
    Gowienczyk;1344097 said:

    I am quite uncertain you've heard Light the Fuse and Run, though!

    actually, a band i was in played with them in virgina. :)

    i wasn't into them personally, but i haven't heard them since that night (i wanna say it was early 2001).
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    afterstasis;1344108 said:
    actually, a band i was in played with them in virgina. :)

    i wasn't into them personally, but i haven't heard them since that night (i wanna say it was early 2001).
    Pick up the 2002 release, All Your Base Are Belong to Us.
  • Rev0lverRev0lver Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    Gowienczyk;1344064 said:
    Mathcore can be easily called a fake genre as a lot of mathcore fits post-hardcore perfectly.
    I would disagree with you there, there are many notable differences between the two. I don't see how you could say an Alexisonfire and DEP song are similar at all.
  • Coheed.Coheed. Jerk Face
    edited September 2008
    lol, is this for all those people on the ultimate setlist forum demanding post hardcore but then saying only stuff from this decade?
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    Rev0lver;1344145 said:
    I would disagree with you there, there are many notable differences between the two. I don't see how you could say an Alexisonfire and DEP song are similar at all.
    Post-Hardcore is a large, vague and very experimental genre.

    Alexisonfire also doesn't sound like Big Black, Funeral Diner or Refused.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    Coheed.;1344148 said:
    lol, is this for all those people on the ultimate setlist forum demanding post hardcore but then saying only stuff from this decade?
    >>

    Post-Hardcore is one of my favorite genres.
  • Coheed.Coheed. Jerk Face
    edited September 2008
    off topic, but does anybody know why chris pennie left the dillenger escape plan for coheed and cambria? i would think DEM would offer more experimental sytle of playing for drummer.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    Also, if you need the desire. You can say mathcore is a subgenre of post-hardcore.
  • Rev0lverRev0lver Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    That's more of what I meant. It's a specialized form of hardcore and doesn't sound like most of the bands of the main genre.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    Rev0lver;1344425 said:
    That's more of what I meant. It's a specialized form of hardcore and doesn't sound like most of the bands of the main genre.
    If I didn't detest the term math rock and mathcore, I might of listed mathcore as a subgenre.
  • cdesteycdestey Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    Coheed.;1344178 said:
    off topic, but does anybody know why chris pennie left the dillenger escape plan for coheed and cambria? i would think DEM would offer more experimental sytle of playing for drummer.
    According to him, he was given more creative freedom in C&C.


    The first category listed is basically the greatest collection of bands ever listed anywhere.

    The only omission I see is Quicksand.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    cdestey;1345020 said:
    According to him, he was given more creative freedom in C&C.


    The first category listed is basically the greatest collection of bands ever listed anywhere.

    The only omission I see is Quicksand.
    I've seen them mentioned a lot but never listened, personally.
  • cdesteycdestey Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    a sample:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDVF2DE2e8k

    they owe quite a bit to Helmet and their NYHC roots
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    cdestey;1345076 said:
    a sample:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDVF2DE2e8k

    they owe quite a bit to Helmet and their NYHC roots
    Well, they give me a more hard rock vibe, personally.
  • cdesteycdestey Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    Not surprising, seeing as how bands like the Deftones lifted directly from them.
  • GowienczykGowienczyk Pooper of Parties
    edited September 2008
    cdestey;1345134 said:
    Not surprising, seeing as how bands like the Deftones lifted directly from them.
    Ah, I see.
  • tofubottofubot Opening Act
    edited September 2008
    post-hardcore...

    are we there already?

    pft, all i listen to is proto-post-industri-trip-goth-avant-prog-core.

    ps: quicksand is awesome. granted, i'd have to say the entire sacramento mid-late 90's alt metal scene was just a rip on them. far, deftones, will haven, etc.
  • Coheed.Coheed. Jerk Face
    edited September 2008
    cdestey;1345020 said:
    According to him, he was given more creative freedom in C&C.


    The first category listed is basically the greatest collection of bands ever listed anywhere.

    The only omission I see is Quicksand.
    really? why, thats good for me, as a coheed fan. I saw him live and he is awesome. way better than their last drummer.
  • bassHerobassHero Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    tofubot;1346206 said:
    pft, all i listen to is proto-post-industri-trip-goth-avant-prog-core.
    Hahaha :P...
  • ParodygmParodygm Road Warrior
    edited September 2008
    Zen Arcade for Rock Band? ;)
  • afterstasisafterstasis Washed Up
    edited September 2008
    Parodygm;1352220 said:
    Zen Arcade for Rock Band? ;)
    you hold your breath, i'll hold mine. :)
  • kwami42kwami42 Rising Star
    edited October 2008
    I just downloaded Glassjaw's "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Silence," and I'm really diggin' it! Maybe I'll have to look into some more post-hardcore material.
  • tofubottofubot Opening Act
    edited October 2008
    kwami42;1354170 said:
    I just downloaded Glassjaw's "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Silence," and I'm really diggin' it! Maybe I'll have to look into some more post-hardcore material.
    funny, i was listening to that on my way to work today.

    dude, that album is such an amazing creation. it's the perfect "welcome to the world" album in my opinion. i guess it's cos i first heard it when i was 19, which is about the age the band was when they made it.

    just everything about it sonically, with the kind of riffs they were laying down, not to mention all the odd influences from post-punk and ECHC. then darell's vox are so powerful and heart wrenching.

    now question. would converge be considered post-hardcore? they're definitely strong in advancement thing that post-punk way. they don't seem to fall into the metalcore lump very easily even though people like to toss them there.
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