On Rock Band compatibility-

edited November 2007 in Announcements
We’ve stated many times that Rock Band supports an open standard. What does that mean? It means that Rock Band supports the same system that drives a basic PS3 or Xbox 360 controller or peripheral.

If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360.

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.

We want you to enjoy Rock Band and have set up a superior customer service program. If you have any concerns about Rock Band, please visit: http://support.ea.com/rockband

Comments

  • QuastorQuastor Rising Star
    edited November 2007
    zanth99;132845 said:
    Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.
    What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

    Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.
  • StrangeDaysStrangeDays Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Good point Quastor! I'm sure with both these companies trying to outdo one another, it's hard for them to both come to the table and agree on a standard format. Also, since they are competing, if they ripped code from one another, that would be a BIG no no.

    Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/21/joystiq-holidaze-the-guitar-compatibility-guide/

    Can't we all just get along !?!?!?!
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    "I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software."

    I highly doubt that. It's hard to imagine a patent could exist that would *allow* Harmonix / EA to develop a distribute a guitar-based rhythm action game using a guitar peripheral which does not differ from Guitar Hero's in any particularly significant way, but *prevent* Harmonix / EA from allowing the GH3 controller to work with RB. Unless Neversoft / Activision went to the trouble of developing a completely proprietary input system for the GH3 guitar (rather than simply having it map the standard controls), which somehow I doubt they would do.

    All the significant patents to do simply with making a guitar-based rhythm action game belong to Konami, as is detailed (rather interestingly) here:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014
  • VorparVorpar Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    StrangeDays;133203 said:


    Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.

    Have you read the user agreement on GH3? They revoke the license if you don't use their LP.
  • EmowiiEmowii Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Quastor;133195 said:
    What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

    Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.
    Yeah, but aren't you getting the point here. GH3 has been out for a month now. Harmonix could have easily gone and bought the game a month ago and told everyone with the PS3 version that the Les Paul was not gonna work with Rock Band. All this mess would have been avoided.


    Unfortunately they did everything but that, and I don't think it was by mistake. I am beginning to believe they knowingly let people walk over that cliff of buying the Rock Band game disc, only to realize they were not gonna have a guitar to play that game with.
  • JackBNimbleJackBNimble Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    So there is something I don't understand here.Why is the situation like this?

    XBOX 360

    Xplorer + Les Paul + Fender Strat all work for Rock Band?But RB does not work for GH series,that's fine.RO/activision allow LP and Xplorer.

    So my question is, What's up with the 360?Why can you use all GH controllers with RB on the 360 and not with the PS3?It seems to me that EA/HMX have locked out the LP and SG for the PS3.I could go to any store and buy usb adaptor for my SG but that will not work either.So it looks to me like HMX has locked out all controllers to the PS3 other then the Strat.WHY?

    Sony and MS should make a manditory controller scheme for these types of games that game makers can not deviate from.This should not have been left up to the game makers to decide what controllers work for each system.I don't see how this is acceptable to SCEA to sit and watch game makers making Sony customers buy all these controllers to play rythem games,when the 360 does not have this prob.

    I hope SCEA takes some action!!!
  • thrdeyethrdeye Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

    From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.

    It also sounds like they want the Les Paul to work. Having the Les paul work with RB benefits both organizations at this point and hurts neither, so that's why I truly believe they want it to be compatible. If you don't believe his post, I guess that is your decision to make.

    However, as I've stated mulitple times, the Les Paul is a big laggy turd, and I wouldn't use one even if it were compatible.
  • ThePaskaThePaska Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    I hope stand alone guitars come out soon, this GH III guitar really is terrible. Simply because it has a detachable neck (dumb idea!) and so the buttons often do not work at all, also it being wireless creates all kinds of lag that I just cannot deal with. So here's hoping that I can just spring for another Rock Band guitar ASAP! :cool:
  • rwornerworne Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Quastor;133148 said:
    It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.
    I'm tending to give some weight to this. If you read the opening legalese on GHIII, they specifically state that ONLY an Activision-supplied guitar controller or a gamepad supplied with a console can be used with the game. I'd look with suspicion at any company that makes claims like this.

    So they want to shut out 3rd parties with this little clause? I'd like to think that Activision could not care less what you by their guitars for, but Activision and EA are competitors after all. If they can screw the competition, they will.

    BTW: Where are all the GHIII guitar controller knock-offs?
  • mltdwnmltdwn Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.
  • BathTubBathTub Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    AdamWill;132991 said:
    I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

    What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.
    Yeah that's part I find quite unbelievable at the moment.
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    thrdeye;133514 said:
    I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

    From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.
    It's not a question of whether you 'buy' Sean or what personal opinion you have on his integrity / trustworthiness or whatever. It's simply that he's saying - or rather, what he is being asked to say, as I'm 100% sure that post is not Sean's own words - is a gigantic pile of baloney, as I explained in detail. None of what I wrote is opinion, it's a simple clarification of the well-known definitions of very commonly used terms. There *is no* 'open standard' for guitar-based rhythm action controllers. Harmonix's attempts to muddy the issue with this 'open standard' stuff is just hand-waving. As long as there *is* no standard, it's more sensible to presume the controllers *won't* interact than to presume that they *will*.
  • TuRDMaNTuRDMaN Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    mltdwn;133723 said:
    I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.
    Not in Canada you can't. Just marvellous....
  • Rock_StarmanRock_Starman Headliner
    edited November 2007
    You people wondering why they didn't do anything....Rock Band went gold/started production on Nov. 5th,GH 3 released Oct. 28th.

    Now I'm terrible at math but I believe that's only 7 days apart. They would've had to find any possibly legalities,find out what makes the GH 3 guitar work and then recode the game and probably would've only had 5 days to do it,sent the finished game on the 6th day and then start production. Based on all the disasters around here it didn't go so well anyway.
  • TripleHTripleH Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Okay, so even if all of this legal stuff is true and it's illegal to make a patch for Guitar A to work on Game B. Shouldn't it be perfectly legal to make a "Controller Map" addition to RB so that we can in essence make our own patch for whatever guitar we want to use?

    Nearly all of my PC games have this feature, so I can use whatever controller I wish. All it takes is a little effort on my part to match the buttons on the controller to the desired controls on the game.
  • BathTubBathTub Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    No, but it gives them 20+ days to go to the store, buy a copy of Guitar Hero 3, and try it, then finding it doesn't work, tell people about it.

    20 odd days to decide how to proceed, and tell people about it so they could make an informed purchase.

    Do you really think that no one at harmonix played Guitar Hero 3 in the last month?

    Now before answering that, read this interview: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007/10/26/harmonix-on-guitar-hero-iii-bittersweet-like-seeing-kids-off-to-college/
  • SmokaColaSmokaCola Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    BathTub;133983 said:

    Do you really think that no one at harmonix played Guitar Hero 3 in the last month?

    Now before answering that, read...
    No one from HMX played GH3, That's totally fake.
  • CatalyticCatalytic Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    At this point, who is at fault is not an issue. Yes, it would have been good if someone had said that the GH3 LP would not be compatible with RB (whether it had been RO, Harmonix or Sony, someone surely knew and they knew before Friday/Saturday when the news came out). Why and how this was not revealed sooner is awful; all parties involved should be ashamed.

    The best option now is to send a polite, well thought out letter/email to Red Octane, Harmonix and Sony to encourage each company to find a way to alleviate this situation. As a consumer, you have power in the form of your wallet. I have already sent such emails to all three companies.

    Yes, it seems hopeless that such letters might have any impact, but if enough people do such, it forces a solution that is in everyone's best interests. Ranting and raving (swearing and cursing) on these forums is not going to get anything done. I am as upset as the rest of you are, but nothing will get done by just appealing to Harmonix on these boards. Your best option is to appeal to each company in turn to solve the problem. Again, you do have some power in this situation and if you are upset then use that power.
  • CredgeCredge Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Catalytic, you are very wrong about ranting on forums, especially ones moderated and viewed by employees of the game creator. You'd be surprised at how much more they learn about a product from forums rather than e-mails. Such things got 24 character slots put in for all players of Hellgate: London rather quickly... which was something that was originally going to be subscriber only content... as was the elite difficulty.

    Now, call me a stickler, but from my past experiences with EA's products, I have found that all of them over the last few years (minus a few sports games) have been terribly rushed and have bad quality checks. Although they are only producing the game, they seem to place certain dead lines that simply can't be met. I think the same can be applied here.

    Why did they release a single copy in stores? Surely they assumed the GH3 controllers would be able to be used. If they knew this was going to happen then why didn't they recall the single copies before they hit shelves? You can bet your arse that they bought GH3, or at the very least had a GH3 controller laying around somewhere in the studio. Surely there was SOME form of communication between the two competing games, otherwise why would they assume it worked?

    Further, they already had available GH2 controls and knew that GH2 controller does not work with the PS3. I'm very skeptical about all of this.

    I think they only really tested the 360 version as, it seems, every single video review is using the 360 version with a guitar hero 3 controller, or a PS3 version with the strat. While this isn't a big deal for me, as I despise the GH buttons, it's certainly left me with a lot of doubt about the product.
  • ShadowOfEdenShadowOfEden Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    hmxsean;132720 said:


    We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.
    Then, at least the stand alone guitar should be released at the same time as the game to enjoy the full experience of a band we were promised. End of january/early february, as it was already announced is way too far, especially since we will be missing the dozen of holiday parties.
  • bucket bearbucket bear Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Has anyone heard if Red Octane is commenting on all of this? I bought GHIII on release day for the 360. And I bought Rock Band and GHIII for the PS3 on Rock Band release date. I would hate to think that I bought a second copy of GHIII for nothing. As far as who is to blame, I really don't care, as long as the problem gets resolved.
  • CatalyticCatalytic Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Credge;134215 said:
    Catalytic, you are very wrong about ranting on forums, especially ones moderated and viewed by employees of the game creator. You'd be surprised at how much more they learn about a product from forums rather than e-mails. Such things got 24 character slots put in for all players of Hellgate: London rather quickly... which was something that was originally going to be subscriber only content... as was the elite difficulty.
    I think the forums are a good place to inform one company ... but there are at least three companies (if not four or five if you count EA and Neversoft, but I don't think they have anything to do with getting this fixed) that are part of the problem and needed to come to a solution. Forums are great for informing the creators about certain issues (e.g. glitches, changes you would like made, etc.), but the compatibility of the LP is not just Harmonix's problem, it is all of the party's problems. And at this point complaining that they should have known ahead of time is not doing anyone any good (while I agree this had to be known well before Friday/Saturday).

    So, do not take me as claiming that forums are useless, only that posting on the forums here does not address all of the party's that need to know your disatisfaction and your expectations for their products and how you spend your money.
  • thrdeyethrdeye Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    AdamWill;133761 said:
    It's not a question of whether you 'buy' Sean or what personal opinion you have on his integrity / trustworthiness or whatever. It's simply that he's saying - or rather, what he is being asked to say, as I'm 100% sure that post is not Sean's own words - is a gigantic pile of baloney, as I explained in detail. None of what I wrote is opinion, it's a simple clarification of the well-known definitions of very commonly used terms. There *is no* 'open standard' for guitar-based rhythm action controllers. Harmonix's attempts to muddy the issue with this 'open standard' stuff is just hand-waving. As long as there *is* no standard, it's more sensible to presume the controllers *won't* interact than to presume that they *will*.
    Well, all I'm saying is that it seems like HMX wants to resolve this and most people here are being whiney bitches about it and acting like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka.
  • KingThornKingThorn Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    thrdeye;134301 said:
    Well, all I'm saying is that it seems like HMX wants to resolve this and most people here are being whiney bitches about it and acting like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka.
    Does it? What, precisely, are they doing about it other than saying "it's the other guy's fault?"
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Rock_Starman;133955 said:
    You people wondering why they didn't do anything....Rock Band went gold/started production on Nov. 5th,GH 3 released Oct. 28th.

    Now I'm terrible at math but I believe that's only 7 days apart. They would've had to find any possibly legalities,find out what makes the GH 3 guitar work and then recode the game and probably would've only had 5 days to do it,sent the finished game on the 6th day and then start production. Based on all the disasters around here it didn't go so well anyway.
    I asked why they weren't *working on a patch* to be released simultaneously with the box (so that it installed the first time you started the game), not why they didn't pull and update the actual boxes.
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    thrdeye: sure, if they truly want to resolve it, that's great. What I'm calling them out on is their attempt to avoid any kind of blame and throw it all on RO.
  • UltraceUltrace Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    Frepin;132766 said:
    sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.
    And people wonder why HMX isn't commenting all over about this problem and that. When they do, people just spit on it because it's not quite the answer they want to hear, even if it's the truth.

    Unless anyone here happens to be a PS3 developer, then I would stress that they have no idea how complex or not fixing this issue is, or whether there is a legitimate problem with the way RO developed the LP. If you are in fact a PS3 developer, feel free to pop up and tell us all how you easily fix the problem.
  • BobsRevengeBobsRevenge Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    I would just really like a straight answer. Just a "We are working on a patch." or "We won't be able to get it to work." or even a "We are looking into the possibilities of getting it to work."

    Not a "We support an open standard." type of comment that is sidestepping the issue.

    My Father picked up Guitar Hero 3 for the PS3 because he was under the impression that it would work with RB, and he even did his own research on this. I feel bad that he went through all that effort to get shat on for it.

    Harmonix, I know its thanksgiving and you're not going to answer to any of these comments today. But as soon as possible, give us a straight answer and get into the technicalities of it. We aren't stupid. To me I see the GH3 PS3 guitar working with the same standard as the RB one does, it just uses a different configuration to do that. RB needs to support that configuration also, if only for parity between console versions. Just enable RB to see that the GH3 LP is being used on the PS3 and then use an alternate set of instructions for it to work. I understand that that makes for more work for you, but you really should be striving for parity between all the versions. We all pay the same amount for it.
  • ScreamingSlaveScreamingSlave Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    The real issue here is getting stand alone instruments on the PS3. Even if the GH3 guitar did work with RB, that only comes in a bundle for $100 and won't be sold separately for at least 4-6 months. That doesn't leave people many options.
  • XervaiXervai Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    BobsRevenge;135706 said:

    Not a "We support an open standard." type of comment that is sidestepping the issue.

    My Father picked up Guitar Hero 3 for the PS3 because he was under the impression that it would work with RB, and he even did his own research on this. I feel bad that he went through all that effort to get shat on for it.


    Believe me, we ALL did our "own research on this". We were just lead to believe otherwise. I too want to know. You going to help us, or not? I don't want to keep thinking I can keep this Les Paul around if I can trade it in for something else. I've tried PS2 guitars, the les paul, adapters.... Same problem. I don't know what 3rd party controllers you are talking about, but if anyone actually finds one, I'll go buy the damn thing.

    I enjoy the game a lot. VERY much. I just want a straight answer on the controller deal.
This discussion has been closed.