On Rock Band compatibility-

edited November 2007 in Announcements
We’ve stated many times that Rock Band supports an open standard. What does that mean? It means that Rock Band supports the same system that drives a basic PS3 or Xbox 360 controller or peripheral.

If your controller or peripheral doesn’t work with Rock Band, it is because the manufacturer doesn’t support the standard controller configuration. In other words, if a peripheral or controller doesn’t work with Rock Band, then the manufacturer has done something to prevent it from working with Rock Band by changing how the device “talks” to either a PS3 or Xbox 360.

If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

We also want you to know that we are working to get stand-alone Rock Band Guitars, Drums and Microphones to the market as soon as possible. In addition to rounding out the band with a second guitar, Rock Band supports guitar vs. guitar, drum vs. drum and vocal vs. vocal modes.

We want you to enjoy Rock Band and have set up a superior customer service program. If you have any concerns about Rock Band, please visit: http://support.ea.com/rockband

Comments

  • Eman311Eman311 Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    AdamWill;132737 said:
    removed for longness.
    It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.
  • FrepinFrepin Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    sean, with all due respect, an answer straight out of the PR department isn't going to satisfy anyone. Harmonix's own marketing material was quite misleading in the case of the PS3, and the last thing anybody wants to hear is it's everybody elses fault but yours.
  • StrangeDaysStrangeDays Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?

    Sounds like Sean/HMX is trying to be fair?
  • Se7enLawlietSe7enLawliet Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Who gives a damn who's to blame.

    Okay, so clearly HMX is willing to patch RB so it'll run Octane's LP controller. But what about Octane? Have they said anything about willing to work with you guys?
  • TheVoiceOfReasonTheVoiceOfReason Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Sean,

    Then please explain to us two things:

    1) The rampant reports (some from Harmonix execs) stating that the GH3 controllers would work without making any distinction between PS3 and 360

    and most importantly...

    2) What is the purpose OFFICIALLY of the stand alone game that was released this week? Who can play it since there are no standalone controllers on the market?

    PS> Your "superior" support system is raising Javascript errors all over the place....
  • metalfenixmetalfenix Rising Star
    edited November 2007
    Eman311;132764 said:
    It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.
    And I also agree with you and Sean about the open standars on the controllers, and RO had 90% of the fault on the LP compatibility issue BUT, why there are standalone versions of the game for PS3? At least with PS3, there are no more guitar controllers other than the strat from RB and the Les Paul from GH 3, so we are supposed to play with what? the sixaxis? I would like to know an official statement about this.

    I was about to buy a standalone version of the game and use the LP of my GH3, fortunately I managed to find the bucks and changed the preorder for the full bundle, but this matter still drives me mad.
  • zanth99zanth99 Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Eman311;132764 said:
    It I would its easy to design your game to support 3rd party controllers. I stand by HMX in that they truthfully designed Rock Band to support all controllers. They did not have the GH3 controller when they built the game, that is why they said it should work, but didn't. They expected some standards of all controllers, and these standards obviously weren't followed by Red Octane. Does that make HMX or RO to blame? It's a tricky matter, for sure.

    Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.
  • 33percentgod33percentgod Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    You hear that Harmonix? That's me on my knees begging for you to get Rock Band's guitar to work with Guitar Hero 1,2 and 80's.
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    "Oh cool...AdamWill....you make videogames?"

    no (I work for a Linux company, as it happens :>), I just have a bit of experience of this from mixing GuitarFreaks / Guitar Hero controllers. As I said, the fact that guitar games use arbitrary 'odd' control motions (holding down an axis or two permanently) to recognize controllers is fairly obvious by comparing the behaviour of the controllers in those two games, and has been more extensively looked into by people doing homebrew controllers (there's various discussions at bemanistyle.com , if you're interested).

    to make it clear, I'm not trying to dump on HMX specifically here. As I wrote, the blame for this should properly be shared equally between HMX and RO (and, if you care, Bemani). I just disagree with HMX waving the 'open standards' line and trying to duck all responsibility. As I wrote, there *is* no meaningful standard for guitar game controller conventions. "The controller has to map controls that exist on the first-party controller for the console" is not a standard, just a simple technical limitation. *Of course* it does.
  • EmowiiEmowii Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now? They stand to make money by doing so. I have two friends who own GH3 for their PS3 right this second. They want to buy the Rock Band disc, but they're not interested in buying any extra peripherals to do so. So, if a patch comes through to make the guitars that they already own work with this game, they're gonna both spend $60 on Harmonix's game the next day.


    See how that works? Why the hell wouldn't you guys try and make this happen ASAP? No, you might think a lot of people are just gonna go buy your guitars whenever the hell you get around to releasing them, but that is not the case. People who already own GH3 aren't always gonna want to spend another $100 to buy your game, plus a new guitar to play the game. They've already got a guitar that works great, and they're ready to buy your game. Make it happen, and they give you their money.
  • deathincdeathinc Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Sean, Two Words: Cop Out.

    Either get the controllers working, now, or start shipping more guitars/drums to the store now.
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Emowii;132904 said:
    Here is what I don't get. Why wouldn't Harmonix do everything it can to patch this right now?
    I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

    What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.
  • KingThornKingThorn Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    AdamWill;132991 said:
    I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.
    Note there's nothing in that announcement that says "Yes, we're working on it. You'll have a functional guitar as soon as we make sure it works properly."

    I'll be happy to give Harmonix my $60, but not on the 'hope' that everyone will work together and get a patch out, and not on the word that a patch is on the way. When the patch is here and works, I'll buy.

    No, I'm not buying the bundle. No, I'm not buying it for the 360, though I was sorely tempted. It's the idea that we were ensured that the GH3 controller would in fact work with Rock Band, and then all of a sudden "Nope, not gonna work. Sorry. Oh, did we mention that the 360 GH3 controller DOES work with our game? Tough luck, chum. Can't return opened software. Thanks for the money, perhaps you can use the CD as a drink coaster until January, when we'll announce a shortage of guitars. Address all complaints to Red Octane."
  • lynx44lynx44 Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    I agree 100% with what AdamWill is saying. If it truly is an open standard, post a link to it on this board, then get to work on patching the game so that the Les Paul will work on Rock Band. Even if they didn't follow the standard, it was already at minimum hinted that the guitar would work, and you'll make more money anyway. I just don't understand companies like this, why do they want to both make their customer unhappy AND lose money. It makes me so irritated, I'm sure its not THAT difficult, and if it is, please explain why because I have a hard time believing that it is.

    And before anyone gives me a "are you a programmer" line, yes I am in fact a software developer. I don't have a lot of experience with hardware but I have some and its all pretty simple really.

    -Matt
  • Will-sanWill-san Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    hmxsean;132720 said:


    If any controller or peripheral manufacturer wants their product to work with Rock Band, we promise to work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

    This is encouraging but it sounds like you are waiting for EA or Red Octane or whatever to call you and say "hey here is the code you need to make our controller work". It is certainly possible that the "Other Periperal Manufacturer" is to blame for this but if Harmix really cares about their customers they will take a much more proactive approach.

    How about adopting a position more allong the lines of: "If any controller or peripheral manufacturer is willing to let their product work with Rock Band, we promise to pester them mercilessly so that we can work with them to create a patch or adapter to make it work.

    BTW does any one know if the PS3 RB controller works with Guitar Hero III?
  • QuastorQuastor Rising Star
    edited November 2007
    It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.

    And for those of you who keep pointing to the 360 Les Paul compatiblity, I again point out the common denominator of GH2 on the 360. Harmonix still owns the code to that game, which includes interfacing with the X-Plorer. Both GH3 and RB are based off this same standard. And remember, the 360 controller standard is not the same as the PS3 controller standard. That's comparing apples to oranges.

    Of course, every time I try to throw some common sense into the fray, I just get ignored. So continue bitching, I guess.
  • metalfenixmetalfenix Rising Star
    edited November 2007
    zanth99;132845 said:
    Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.
    I couldn't agree more. I'm still awaiting for an official response about the standalone PS3 version and the no availability of guitar controllers besides the LP right now. Now the people who pre-ordered and bought the standalone version will surely have a nice blue-ray box decorating besides their PS3 until february where the actual RB guitars will be sold separately.
  • QuastorQuastor Rising Star
    edited November 2007
    zanth99;132845 said:
    Pretty sure GH3 hit stores near a month ago, which means the demo guitars were out there long before that. They had enough time to know they weren't going to work to at the LEAST put out a statement before the game was released so us poor people that forked out $60 for the standalone disc wouldn't be hosed.
    What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

    Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.
  • StrangeDaysStrangeDays Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Good point Quastor! I'm sure with both these companies trying to outdo one another, it's hard for them to both come to the table and agree on a standard format. Also, since they are competing, if they ripped code from one another, that would be a BIG no no.

    Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/21/joystiq-holidaze-the-guitar-compatibility-guide/

    Can't we all just get along !?!?!?!
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    "I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software."

    I highly doubt that. It's hard to imagine a patent could exist that would *allow* Harmonix / EA to develop a distribute a guitar-based rhythm action game using a guitar peripheral which does not differ from Guitar Hero's in any particularly significant way, but *prevent* Harmonix / EA from allowing the GH3 controller to work with RB. Unless Neversoft / Activision went to the trouble of developing a completely proprietary input system for the GH3 guitar (rather than simply having it map the standard controls), which somehow I doubt they would do.

    All the significant patents to do simply with making a guitar-based rhythm action game belong to Konami, as is detailed (rather interestingly) here:

    http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014
  • VorparVorpar Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    StrangeDays;133203 said:


    Joystiq just posted a guitar compatibility guide. Turns out RB guitar doesn't work on GH3, so it sounds like maybe Activision doesn't want to play nice? Not sure.

    Have you read the user agreement on GH3? They revoke the license if you don't use their LP.
  • EmowiiEmowii Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    Quastor;133195 said:
    What? Do you really think RedOctane thought, "Hmm, those Harmonix guys are creating a game similar to ours that everyone is viewing as direct competition to our franchise. Let's send them over one of our demo guitars so they can try it out on their own game!"

    Please. Harmonix had to get a hold of the Les Paul the same way everyone else did. Best Buy.
    Yeah, but aren't you getting the point here. GH3 has been out for a month now. Harmonix could have easily gone and bought the game a month ago and told everyone with the PS3 version that the Les Paul was not gonna work with Rock Band. All this mess would have been avoided.


    Unfortunately they did everything but that, and I don't think it was by mistake. I am beginning to believe they knowingly let people walk over that cliff of buying the Rock Band game disc, only to realize they were not gonna have a guitar to play that game with.
  • JackBNimbleJackBNimble Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    So there is something I don't understand here.Why is the situation like this?

    XBOX 360

    Xplorer + Les Paul + Fender Strat all work for Rock Band?But RB does not work for GH series,that's fine.RO/activision allow LP and Xplorer.

    So my question is, What's up with the 360?Why can you use all GH controllers with RB on the 360 and not with the PS3?It seems to me that EA/HMX have locked out the LP and SG for the PS3.I could go to any store and buy usb adaptor for my SG but that will not work either.So it looks to me like HMX has locked out all controllers to the PS3 other then the Strat.WHY?

    Sony and MS should make a manditory controller scheme for these types of games that game makers can not deviate from.This should not have been left up to the game makers to decide what controllers work for each system.I don't see how this is acceptable to SCEA to sit and watch game makers making Sony customers buy all these controllers to play rythem games,when the 360 does not have this prob.

    I hope SCEA takes some action!!!
  • thrdeyethrdeye Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

    From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.

    It also sounds like they want the Les Paul to work. Having the Les paul work with RB benefits both organizations at this point and hurts neither, so that's why I truly believe they want it to be compatible. If you don't believe his post, I guess that is your decision to make.

    However, as I've stated mulitple times, the Les Paul is a big laggy turd, and I wouldn't use one even if it were compatible.
  • ThePaskaThePaska Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    I hope stand alone guitars come out soon, this GH III guitar really is terrible. Simply because it has a detachable neck (dumb idea!) and so the buttons often do not work at all, also it being wireless creates all kinds of lag that I just cannot deal with. So here's hoping that I can just spring for another Rock Band guitar ASAP! :cool:
  • rwornerworne Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    Quastor;133148 said:
    It's always amazing how people can simplify a complex problem to justify their views.

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Harmonix would be opening themselves up to lawsuits if they simple patched RB without RedOctane's permission/request. I can guarantee you that RedOctane has patents and copyrights surrounding the guitar and how it interfaces with the PS3 and software. If Harmonix were just create a patch, they could be infringing on RedOctane's IP and get sued. In a situation like this, it's better to tread carefully. I'm sure Harmonix has spent the past two days trying to reach out to Activision and RedOctane to allow them to do this. My best advice is to start pressuring Activision/RedOctane to allow these two games to play nice.
    I'm tending to give some weight to this. If you read the opening legalese on GHIII, they specifically state that ONLY an Activision-supplied guitar controller or a gamepad supplied with a console can be used with the game. I'd look with suspicion at any company that makes claims like this.

    So they want to shut out 3rd parties with this little clause? I'd like to think that Activision could not care less what you by their guitars for, but Activision and EA are competitors after all. If they can screw the competition, they will.

    BTW: Where are all the GHIII guitar controller knock-offs?
  • mltdwnmltdwn Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.
  • BathTubBathTub Road Warrior
    edited November 2007
    AdamWill;132991 said:
    I expect they are, but there's gonna be a turnaround time of at least a few days for QA.

    What I don't understand is why they weren't working on this since the release of GH3 to have a patch ready *at release time*. You can't tell me no-one at HMX thought to buy a copy of GH3 and check out whether the guitar worked.
    Yeah that's part I find quite unbelievable at the moment.
  • AdamWillAdamWill Opening Act
    edited November 2007
    thrdeye;133514 said:
    I try to stay out of this stuff, but....

    From the posts I've seen, sounds like Sean is shootin straight....he's been in the community from the beginning and has always been involved.
    It's not a question of whether you 'buy' Sean or what personal opinion you have on his integrity / trustworthiness or whatever. It's simply that he's saying - or rather, what he is being asked to say, as I'm 100% sure that post is not Sean's own words - is a gigantic pile of baloney, as I explained in detail. None of what I wrote is opinion, it's a simple clarification of the well-known definitions of very commonly used terms. There *is no* 'open standard' for guitar-based rhythm action controllers. Harmonix's attempts to muddy the issue with this 'open standard' stuff is just hand-waving. As long as there *is* no standard, it's more sensible to presume the controllers *won't* interact than to presume that they *will*.
  • TuRDMaNTuRDMaN Unsigned
    edited November 2007
    mltdwn;133723 said:
    I don't understand why you guys don't just buy additional RB guitars. You can buy them direct for EA.... A tip, it involves going through the support system.
    Not in Canada you can't. Just marvellous....
This discussion has been closed.