What happened to the HMX of 2015?

1
VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
edited March 19 in Rock Band
Warning, this may be a bit of a rant, I apologize if it comes off whinny...

I'm just curious, what has changed for HMX since 2015 to make them change their communication practices with their community?

If anyone doesn't remember, or has forgotten, here you go..
details-revealed-rock-band-4-december-update-and-ongoing-live-program

Some of the highlights I'm referring too:
We’re working on some tools to provide visibility into our long-term development plans. We want to keep you informed about what we’re up to!
At Harmonix, we have never offered this kind of visibility into our future development plans before. We’re doing it because we want you to be informed and help us make good decisions about how we prioritize our work. We ask that you please understand that the development process isn’t entirely smooth – sometimes features get delayed or pulled based on testing, performance, first party delays, etc. Because we’re developing this stuff live, we may not always be able to give an exact date for a feature or bug fix. However, we CAN keep you informed about what we’re working on, how things are going and when we hope to deliver.
Look, I understand some things need to be kept secret, and most people like the surprise of new content/feature updates, but where is the communication on existing bug fixes and existing feature enhancements?
However, we CAN keep you informed about what we’re working on, how things are going and when we hope to deliver.
When is the last time this happened? Who here, besides HMX, knows what they're working on these days or how things are going? Sure we get a generic "We are working on Bug Fixes" every once in a while, But what fixes? Checking Setlist? Cal Pathing? Stuttering? I'm sure we all assume these are what they are working on, but as recent history has shown, unfortunately we can't assume anything. (Matchmaking, multiple players per console online, policing Rivals for cheating (cal pathers), etc...)

The closest they have come to this, (sometimes), is after an update/patch is announced or the day of release, when people start asking questions.

Anyone know if these bugs are being worked on? How about info on PDP adapters? Stage Kit? How is progress on SCEE exports going? How about De-Listed songs?

Look, I'm a huge fan of HMX as a developer, I purchase DLC every week, have over 1,400 songs, been playing every RB title since the original. I will continue to purchase DLC/Expansions/Etc... because I want to support HMX and I want RB to succeed...

I understand that most developers keep their players in the dark, which is unfortunate, But I hold HMX to a higher standard, and in 2015, it looked like they did too...

*EDIT*

This was not meant to sound like the the people who have been communicating with us haven't been doing a awesome job, putting up with our crap, answering & doing what they can...

The real issue is those people or person tying their hands...

Comments

  • The reason why they are quiet about announcements is because they have nothing exiting too announce. RB4 is on the backburner now. Just have to accept it and look forward to our 1 song/week.
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    The post was from 2015, so that's why I went with it...

    I'm not saying there is radio silence, and I admit, there have been answers to some of these questions.
    Unfortunately, you'd have to search for these answers, and they are only answered after being questioned about...

    Perhaps I'm asking to much, wanting statements instead of answers. Wanting to feel like HMX is in tune with the community and able to reasonably know to issue statements for these questions that get asked multiple times....

    We know they are aware of these bugs, we don't know "how things are going and when we hope to deliver."
    @HMXOwl is still cracking the banhammer on cheating crews...
    I would have to disagree, at one point, many weeks ago, this was accurate. Considering that there are at least 2 known Cal Pathers, who openly Cal Path & have stated they will continue to Cal Path until HMX fix it & @HMXOwl has been notified, multiple times about it, with no action taken for weeks...
    people have no excuse at this point. if they really cared about staying safe/getting promoted, then they should use cal lag too. either way the best pather and squeezer will win
    Look, if everyone is happy with the way HMX is communicating, that's great, I can accept that, I guess I am in the minority & everything should continue the way it has lately...
  • LoopyChewLoopyChew Wordsmith
    VladTepz said:

    people have no excuse at this point. if they really cared about staying safe/getting promoted, then they should use cal lag too. either way the best pather and squeezer will win
    Look, if everyone is happy with the way HMX is communicating, that's great, I can accept that, I guess I am in the minority & everything should continue the way it has lately...

    Wait, where did this quote come from?
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    edited March 17
    LoopyChew said:

    VladTepz said:

    people have no excuse at this point. if they really cared about staying safe/getting promoted, then they should use cal lag too. either way the best pather and squeezer will win
    Wait, where did this quote come from?
    audio_calibration_muting_ruins_rivals_competition
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited March 17
    VladTepz said:



    I would have to disagree, at one point, many weeks ago, this was accurate. Considering that there are at least 2 known Cal Pathers, who openly Cal Path & have stated they will continue to Cal Path until HMX fix it & @HMXOwl has been notified, multiple times about it, with no action taken for weeks...


    At this point it would be pretty much negotiating with terrorists. It would be giving the cheating users exactly what they're requesting. Just because they're posing themselves as the Good Guy cheaters who are trying to make things so bad that HMX is forced to deal with it... doesn't mean they're actually good guys, and really HMX is damned no matter what they do at this point, but man, would it set a really bad precedent to be known as a company that takes action to appease the demands of saboteurs. It just encourages anyone else in the future who wants change to do it in a "wreck your users' experience so badly you're forced to bend to us just like you did last time" manner.
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned

    VladTepz said:



    I would have to disagree, at one point, many weeks ago, this was accurate. Considering that there are at least 2 known Cal Pathers, who openly Cal Path & have stated they will continue to Cal Path until HMX fix it & @HMXOwl has been notified, multiple times about it, with no action taken for weeks...


    At this point it would be pretty much negotiating with terrorists. It would be giving the cheating users exactly what they're requesting. Just because they're posing themselves as the Good Guy cheaters who are trying to make things so bad that HMX is forced to deal with it... doesn't mean they're actually good guys, and really HMX is damned no matter what they do at this point, but man, would it set a really bad precedent to be known as a company that takes action to appease the demands of saboteurs. It just encourages anyone else in the future who wants change to do it in a "wreck your users' experience so badly you're forced to bend to us just like you did last time" manner.
    So you're saying that HMX should take no action against these players & their crews and just ignore them( let them continue to "cheat") ?

    Sorry don't want to get too off topic from the OP, didn't really mean for this to turn into a Cal Pathing discussion...
  • thatmarkguythatmarkguy Road Warrior
    edited March 17
    As I said, they're in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. The 'vigilantes' trying to force the issue by abusing it put them in a no win situation. It looks now like it would be worse to do what they probably want to do anyway, because it would send the message that they can be sabotaged into doing things and cause people to try that tactic again.

    If these people actually want change, they chose the most piss-poor way of trying to get it.
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    I feel like I just stepped into the twilight zone...lol

    Everyone is happy!
    We let Cheaters Cheat & ignore them!
    Everything is Awesome!!!!
  • meck77meck77 Road Warrior
    korndog81 said:

    The reason why they are quiet about announcements is because they have nothing exiting too announce. RB4 is on the backburner now. Just have to accept it and look forward to our 1 song/week.

    :( i fear this is the truth :(

    And I'm very sad about it
  • SmashManSmashMan Rising Star
    edited March 17
    The HMX of 2015 is still there, at least as far as this post goes. It was posted by Daniel Sussman, who still works there unless I missed news of his departure at any point.

    I don't know that they ever followed through on providing visibility into their long-term development plans; though without knowing what exactly he meant that I can't be sure. I really only have recollection of features being talked about when they were already done and scheduled for release in whichever upcoming patches they'd be a part of. To me, that's standard practice for games these days and I took that 2015 blog post to mean something more than the norm. But again, without knowing exactly how it was intended to be read, I might be wrong here.
  • edited March 17
    Almost perfect game, though communications aren't working as well as people would like...

    ETA: When a game is as popular as Rock Band is, exploits are bound to happen no matter what.

    The calibration exploit is something their engineers need to investigate. They've dealt with the "Charlene" and "ceiling fan" exploits very well so now they just need to whisk the engineering team into the mix.
  • uppyb0tuppyb0t Opening Act
    edited March 17
    I didn't realize it was still happening. I have the game calibrated perfectly for myself (170a/70v) and will never change it, unless the game itself skews it.

    I want honest feedback and judgement from the game, so I am kept on my toes just like my foot technique.
  • It would be cool to have some form of roadmap for this year - at least something to give us an idea of what features/fixes they are planning for the next updates! They did it last year (even though they postponed the original dates for SOMP) and I really wish they'd do it soon for this year... Gotta wait and see if those new games are gonna get in the way of RB4!

    As a side note, when did they first show last year's roadmap? Was it PAX East?
  • dconrad23dconrad23 Unsigned
    It would be nice to have a roadmap for this year, even if most of it ends up coming later than planned, as has happened in the past. However, I think they'll only release a roadmap if there's a significant amount of plans that are worth announcing. It's like this month's DLC, I think they didn't release the artists ahead of time because there wasn't much DLC planned, and they didn't want to announce an underwhelming number of artists and face more backlash than necessary. I think this year's roadmap is the same, they haven't released one because there isn't enough worth mentioning. Why release a roadmap if they think the response will be negative?
  • @dconrad23 I honestly think they didn't announce this month's DLC in advance because of the Archer plans for Danger Zone. Also there's the possibility that next week or the week after has overlap with RBVR which would negatively impact RBVR sales (if the new content starts heading to RB4 near RBVR launch day, why buy RBVR at all?)
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    A Road map would be great, an official,(regularly update), FAQ would be great, consistency would be the best ;)

    I think there are simple (small) things they could do differently which would have a huge impact on current moral...
    Why release a road map if they think the response will be negative?
    Honestly, it doesn't matter what they release, there will always be backlash and negative response. I would think it would be better to let us know, have people **** & moan for a week, & be done with it for the most part, rather to have everyone **** & moan after every update/patch...

    The problem I think is that everyone is expecting the holy grail of update & patches each time, the one that will fix all "their" issues, or add the features "they" want. Without knowing a road map, poor communication, etc.., they are setting themselves up for unhappy customers after every update/patch.

    Undersell & Overdeliver...That can't happen when you leave the expectations up to the individual wants of each person...

    Undersell != keeping your customers in the dark..

    Let us know now (road map), keep us updated regularly on progress. It's OK to say no or not now to things or under deliver things to us if you keep us well informed. We will understand...

    Right now it feels too much like they have been selectively withholding info that "may" make them look bad or cause backlash, which to me makes them look scared & untrustworthy...

    Give us the Good, the Bad, & the Ugly so we can praise you for being an upfront, honest, & trustworthy developer, & give you the community support you deserve, like we used to be able to do...
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    edited March 19
    P.S. I just wanted to say I don't blame the team or individuals in charge of communicating with us. Heck, there are some people from other departments helping out when they can, They have actually been doing an awesome job, putting up with our crap, answering what they can, & giving us what info they can...

    It's the person or people who are tying their hands with what they can & can't say or do...
  • BachiGBachiG Inconceivable...
    edited March 19
    For everyone hoping for a roadmap this year... I don't think there will be one according to the interview in Rockbandaide from PAX with Josh and Criss:

    "Craig: Rock Band 4 is the first game you guys have regularly supported post-release with content updates. We had a roadmap for them last year, would we see another?

    Josh: So we have a new update next week, and it has a lot of content. And a few updates for the rest of the year, but I don’t think we’d have another public roadmap. Internally, yes, we have a road map and fixed plans on what we’re creating and updating.

    Criss: Yeah, I think we had so much going on last year we needed it. And a lot of those updates focused on important features and bug fixes so it was easier to show the community what we were doing.

    Josh: We have plenty of feature updates coming, but this next one is definitely asset and content heavy."
  • VladTepzVladTepz Unsigned
    edited March 19
    BachiG said:

    For everyone hoping for a roadmap this year... I don't think there will be one according to the interview in Rockbandaide from PAX with Josh and Criss:

    "Craig: Rock Band 4 is the first game you guys have regularly supported post-release with content updates. We had a roadmap for them last year, would we see another?

    Josh: So we have a new update next week, and it has a lot of content. And a few updates for the rest of the year, but I don’t think we’d have another public roadmap. Internally, yes, we have a road map and fixed plans on what we’re creating and updating.

    Criss: Yeah, I think we had so much going on last year we needed it. And a lot of those updates focused on important features and bug fixes so it was easier to show the community what we were doing.

    Josh: We have plenty of feature updates coming, but this next one is definitely asset and content heavy."

    Honestly not surprised... Now we get all speculate what this actually means for us...

    I'm hoping that it means they are shifting away from "flashy" updates & focusing on fixing & improving existing features..

    Unfortunately I feel a lot of disappointment coming as without proper communication, we no longer know what HMX's priorities are in regards to Rock Band...
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited March 19
    The thing is, what needs transparency currently that doesn't have it? Well all that comes to mind is the ION/Ekit adapters and what RBVR means for RB4.

    We have proof for entitlements being worked on via the fantastic SIEE progress this year, the PAX East 2017 interview says SIEE is the focus so it's reasonable to deduce from this that other consoles will likely start getting entitlement fixes in late spring or early summer.

    DLC, they've said so many times that the quantity varies and the quantity currently is mostly comparable to summer 2016. The interview and Xbox store stats proves that Rewind is very popular and so while export owners only get 1 song per week most weeks, it's an annoying but reasonable sacrifice so newcomers don't get penalized for joining the Rock Band community in 2015 or later.

    Updates, well all we were told is 2017 was getting updates after the online one. We've got one in March and they say there's more coming so that automatically satisfies the "updates" term.
  • krectuskrectus Opening Act
    edited March 19
    I think if they consider this current March update as content heavy, you get a pretty good idea of why there isn't a road map for the rest of the year, there is nothing worth mentioning coming soon.
    The reason they did the roap map last time was to try and appease a lot of angry fans who were upset by the unfinished, lacking released version of RB4 and a mea culpa of sorts to try and get communication out for all the fixes and features ahead.
    RBVR seems to be where more of the attention is going for the foreseeable future. Would like to see a road map for that.

    This rewind DLC schedule is kind of a piss off though. If there's a great song for say, RB3 that you really want, it could be till like December before it finally gets released as Rewind DLC. Seems like they could put up all the old export stuff as DLC now instead of trickling it out week by week to make it look like more new DLC.
  • Yeah what did they mean content heavy.. the free songs and free character? I guess it's true that it is "content" as opposed to fixes.. but it seems like pretty easy-to-develop content as opposed to new modes or something..
  • grumblevolcanogrumblevolcano Headliner
    edited March 19
    @krectus RB3 songs aren't being released as standalone DLC because you can still get the export. Here's the situation on exports:
    - RB1 - Delisted in 2015, Rewind songs started to appear January 2017
    - RB2 - Delisted in 2015, Rewind songs started to appear December 2016
    - RB3 - Export made available in December 2015, still purchasable!
    - LRB - Delisted in 2015 (maybe earlier?), Rewind songs started to appear January 2017
    - GDRB - Delisted in 2015, whole setlist released as standalone DLC in 2012
    - Blitz - Will probably be delisted in August 2017 though released as standalone DLC in December 2012 - March 2013
    - Track Packs (AC/DC, 2, Classic Rock, Metal, Country, Country 2) - Can still redeem unused codes to get the content

    So the only discs that it makes sense to release songs as standalone DLC from on this list are RB1, RB2 and LRB.
  • SmashManSmashMan Rising Star
    BachiG said:

    For everyone hoping for a roadmap this year... I don't think there will be one according to the interview in Rockbandaide from PAX with Josh and Criss:

    "Craig: Rock Band 4 is the first game you guys have regularly supported post-release with content updates. We had a roadmap for them last year, would we see another?

    Josh: So we have a new update next week, and it has a lot of content. And a few updates for the rest of the year, but I don’t think we’d have another public roadmap. Internally, yes, we have a road map and fixed plans on what we’re creating and updating.

    Criss: Yeah, I think we had so much going on last year we needed it. And a lot of those updates focused on important features and bug fixes so it was easier to show the community what we were doing.

    Josh: We have plenty of feature updates coming, but this next one is definitely asset and content heavy."

    On one hand, I'm not sure this sounds promising for us, specifically Criss' phrasing (unless this isn't an exact quote in the write-up) of having so much going on that they needed to put out a public roadmap. If that's accurate, the implication is that by not feeling the need to publish a public roadmap, there isn't as much going on with the game as there was last year.

    I also don't know how to take Josh saying (again, depending how exact this transcription is) there are "a few updates for the rest of the year" and "plenty of feature updates coming" - "plenty of" and "a few" give different impressions.

    On the other hand, Josh recently said on Reddit, "These aren't coming as quickly, but I think that in the first six months of 2017 we'll be delivering more than we did in the first six months of 2016."

    So, I guess in the roughest way to guesstimate the amount of content, it'll be more than whatever came in the first half of last year. Who's got a good memory of what was added last year? My memory sucks. B)
  • @SmashMan Here's a summary.
    January: No patch
    February: 3 new Rock Shop items
    March: 10 new Rock Shop items
    April: Setlists
    May: 2 new Rock Shop items, double bass support (you can use 2 bass pedals)
    June: Practice mode
    Total: 15 new Rock Shop items, 2 software features (setlists, practice mode), 1 hardware feature (double bass support)

    Meanwhile this year.
    January: Online multiplayer, 1 new song
    February: No patch
    March: 8 new Rock Shop items, 11 new songs
    Total so far: 8 new Rock Shop items, 12 new songs, 1 software feature (online)

    So really it depends on how much you value the free songs.
  • SmashManSmashMan Rising Star
    I knew you'd come through, haha. I only really remembered last April and June for their feature updates.

    Looks like they're on pace to match Rock Shop items and software features and I wouldn't imagine any hardware features so you're right, it comes down to how much someone values the free songs.

    Part of me wonders if they're using the free songs to balance out a lack of additional modes/features this year, but that's total speculation on my part and is something we'll only be able to judge in time.
  • Well judging from the timings, we probably have 1-2 more updates for Rivals if it ends in June like last year for the main updates. If we look deeper at when the patches came out, this is what you find.

    October 18th - Rivals launches
    December 14th - Second main update
    January 25th - Third main update
    March 16th - Fourth main update

    So generally around 1.5 - 2 months between updates. Seems like these are the most likely possibilities:
    April - Fifth main update
    May - Nothing
    June - Sixth main update

    April - Nothing
    May - Fifth main update
    June - Sixth main update

    April - Nothing
    May - Fifth main update
    June - Nothing
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